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#41 TAHAWK

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 10:34 PM

“ ‘You set up a structure—six to eight Scouts—and let them figure it out,’ he says. 
 
‘Boys are going to want to stick together if you can use their friendships to put together a team.’ ”
   
    B.S.A., Scouting (May-June 2012)(quoting child psychologist 
      Dr. Brett Laursen )
 
No necessarily Webelos -> Scout groups
 
Is it the quality of decisions, guided by the wisdom of someone other than their Troop Guide or adults in the coach/resource role, or allowing them to make decisions and process the results?

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#42 Eagledad

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 07:18 AM

Pride Ignores quality of performance.

Barry
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"Experience is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first, then the lesson."


#43 MattR

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 10:14 AM

Time is critical for learning from group decisions. The faster a group has to respond to a situation, the faster they make decisions that teach them from the repercussions of that decision. That's why I like tight agendas on our campouts. Time is a great teacher of living by the scout law because we humans learn best under stress.

I've used this as much as possible. But it's not fool proof, in an odd way. I had a training campout and I packed it really tight, just to add a time stress. I told the scouts if they didn't work together they'd fail. They had fun and at the end I asked them what they thought of the training and they said it was great. The thing they liked the most was how much time they had to do things. Say what? Turns out they took my advice to heart and worked so well together that everything went much more smoothly than normal. So, did it work when they got back to their patrols? They certainly are much better than before, but not nearly as good as they were on that training.

 

Eagledad, you said earlier that cooking took up time from training. We put some challenges in their cooking. We gave them something they hadn't cooked with before (ingredients, methods, equipment). It worked well. Something like the banana split thing. They knew there was a challenge so they got into it. I think that's why the time stress training worked so well.


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#44 Eagledad

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 01:05 PM

Eagledad, you said earlier that cooking took up time from training. We put some challenges in their cooking. We gave them something they hadn't cooked with before (ingredients, methods, equipment). It worked well. Something like the banana split thing. They knew there was a challenge so they got into it. I think that's why the time stress training worked so well.


Yes, we do that at district patrol leader training where we are teaching team building. But the course I was referring to was a Council level course where focus was on management skills. Not that team building isn't important for managing a troop patrols, we just assumed they had that kind of training. Personally I believe is one of the most challenging team activities in the program.

Barry
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"Experience is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first, then the lesson."


#45 TAHAWK

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 05:22 PM

Barry,

 

Could you tell me more about the district-level youth patrol leader training?   Is the syllabus available on line?  Around here, that training disappeared by 2001 except to the extent that my former troop ran it several years and invited other troops send participants.


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#46 Eagledad

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 12:53 PM

Barry,
 
Could you tell me more about the district-level youth patrol leader training?   Is the syllabus available on line?  Around here, that training disappeared by 2001 except to the extent that my former troop ran it several years and invited other troops send participants.


It was probably very much like your course with a few modifications here and there. But I'm not sure the use it anymore since I was on the district committee. An old Brownsea syllabus is a good start if you can find one.

Barry
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"Experience is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first, then the lesson."


#47 TAHAWK

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 03:18 PM

We were using the Junior Leader Orientation Workshop syllabus with the now heretical 11 Leadership Skills.  "Welcome to Scouting's toughest job."


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#48 Eagledad

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 09:56 AM

We were using the Junior Leader Orientation Workshop syllabus with the now heretical 11 Leadership Skills.  "Welcome to Scouting's toughest job."

Our troop used that course as a guide because it is a true leadership skills course. But we found it to be too much content without a lot of exercise or practice. Kind of a shotgun approach to throwing a lot of information at the participants and hoping they catch 15% of it. So we scaled it way way down and the Scouts got a lot more out of it. Better to use three skills well than to forget all eleven. And we added other subjects important for our program like testing and signing off rank requirements. Yes, that subject was added as a reaction. We had a communication class but not like the 11 skills communication. This was much more basic like phone etiquette.

This goes back to what I was saying that course leaders need plan what they really want the participants to take back with them. Then build some meaningful activities for practice. Also maturity needs to be considered. I think the guide was designed for 14 and older Scouts. The average age of patrol leaders today is probably closer to 12. Big difference.

The frustration for me about training courses is that they should only be used to teach a needed skill that is not getting developed in the natural environment. But the BSA has pushed them to be a fix for all things whether or not anything in the course content needs fixing.

I grew to measure the performance of our patrol method program by the skills Scouts were lacking to perform their duties with confidence. I viewed any outside lessons needed for the Scouts to function with confidence in our program as a failure to our patrol method. Training is just a bandaid to bring skills to an acceptable level. So while we used training to build skills, I was always looking how to Build more practice of the skill in the natural patrol environment.

There is very little a senior scout could take from a council level junior leadership course that shouldn't already be practiced at a patrol level. The syllabus we developed for our Council Course intended for Scouts 14 and older came from the Patrol Leaders Handbook and SPL Handbook. You don't have to guess what two resources the Scouts were issued and expected to have with them in their classes.

I have harped on this forum many times that if the adults would just give their Scouts the PLHB and SPLHB and let them go, they would have a jump start on a patrol method program. I even required Scoutmasters bring those handbooks to my Scoutmasters Fundamental course so they could see just how much of the SM fundamental course material was in scouts' leadership Handbooks. Why lecture to Scouts what their books already say.

Anyway, I've gone to long.

Happy Fargers Day

Barry
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"Experience is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first, then the lesson."





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