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Untrained Leaders Report


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#1 T2Eagle

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 08:44 PM

I was looking at the my.scouting.org Training Manager, and it is telling me that several of my committee members are untrained.  When I looked to see what training was missing I got this long list:

SCO_400 Scouting Organization for Boy Scouting SCO_401 Role of the Unit Key 3 for Boy Scouting SCO_402 Aims and Methods of Boy Scouting SCO_403 Ideals and Beliefs of Boy Scouting SCO_404 Scoutmaster and Patrol Leaders for Boy Scouting SCO_405 Patrol Method for Boy Scouting SCO_406 Outdoor Programs for Boy Scouting SCO_407 Advancement for Boy Scouting SCO_408 Uniforms for Boy Scouting SCO_409 Leader Uniforms for Boy Scouting SCO_410 Patrol Leaders Council Meeting for Boy Scouting SCO_411 Troop Meeting for Boy Scouting SCO_412 Troop Committee for Boy Scouting SCO_413 Troop Committee Meetings for Boy Scouting SCO_414 Annual Planning for Boy Scouting SCO_415 Intro to Merit Badges for Boy Scouting SCO_530 Journey to Excellence.

 

I've never even heard of most of these, has anyone else seen anything like this?


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#2 Fehler

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 08:55 AM

That's the module method of training.  They've broken up all the committee/leader online trainings into pieces, so if you took both the Cubmaster training and later took the Den Leader training, you could skip the modules you already covered for the previous position.


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#3 Col. Flagg

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 09:46 AM

I was looking at the my.scouting.org Training Manager, and it is telling me that several of my committee members are untrained.  When I looked to see what training was missing I got this long list:

SCO_400 Scouting Organization for Boy Scouting SCO_401 Role of the Unit Key 3 for Boy Scouting SCO_402 Aims and Methods of Boy Scouting SCO_403 Ideals and Beliefs of Boy Scouting SCO_404 Scoutmaster and Patrol Leaders for Boy Scouting SCO_405 Patrol Method for Boy Scouting SCO_406 Outdoor Programs for Boy Scouting SCO_407 Advancement for Boy Scouting SCO_408 Uniforms for Boy Scouting SCO_409 Leader Uniforms for Boy Scouting SCO_410 Patrol Leaders Council Meeting for Boy Scouting SCO_411 Troop Meeting for Boy Scouting SCO_412 Troop Committee for Boy Scouting SCO_413 Troop Committee Meetings for Boy Scouting SCO_414 Annual Planning for Boy Scouting SCO_415 Intro to Merit Badges for Boy Scouting SCO_530 Journey to Excellence.

 

I've never even heard of most of these, has anyone else seen anything like this?

 

We had the same issue. They took the Troop Committee Challenge and This is Scouting and broke in down from the two, easy modules to 47,000 tiny modules. Stupid!

 

We what did was this:

  • For volunteers who had already completed the two modules, we credited them with all the new modules (which are actually contained in the original two)
  • For new volunteers, they need to take the new modules.

We did something similar for SMs.


Edited by Col. Flagg, 09 May 2017 - 09:46 AM.

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#4 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 10:53 AM

It could be worse.  My council never kept track of training records. It was just never put into the system until about 12 years ago, when National pushed it. Long story short, 99.99999% of the district was untrained. That included myself, training chairman, and our district commissioner who served on PTC staff.

 

We did a training survey, verified who did what, and turned in the report to the council to fix.

 

Now I believe the district training chairman can update those records.


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"Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt


#5 TAHAWK

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 11:47 PM

It's fifteen minutes in Scoutmaster Position-Specific, which is itself a joke and just under eight minutes in "SCO_405 Patrol Method for Boy Scouting."

 

So BSA pretends to train and the Scouter pretends to be trained.

 

For crying out loud.   :(


Edited by TAHAWK, 09 May 2017 - 11:52 PM.

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#6 qwazse

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 06:05 AM

...So BSA pretends to train and the Scouter pretends to be trained....

You were expecting chapter quizzes from the SM handbook?
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#7 Back Pack

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 06:30 AM

You were expecting chapter quizzes from the SM handbook?


A very good idea and easy to implement with computer based training.
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#8 TAHAWK

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 08:14 AM

You were expecting chapter quizzes from the SM handbook?

No, the topic is not covered there either.  It's been decades since the last coherent description of the  Patrol Method from National.  The elements are still out there in BSA literature, but so are absolutely incorrect statements: [In discussing BSA "Methods"]:  "Patrols are one component of what we call youth-run, or youth-led, troop."


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#9 T2Eagle

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 01:40 PM

There are some topics that should work well with internet based learning.  Certainly Troop Committee Challenge is straight forward enough to be covered that way.  I am skeptical that SM specific training can be done suffciently well as a passive lecture format.  On the other hand, at least that avoids the passing on of the many scouting urban legends.  Two of my ASMs came back from their training complete with the "You have to be in uniform to be covered by insurance" nonsense


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#10 Col. Flagg

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 02:20 PM

There are some topics that should work well with internet based learning.  Certainly Troop Committee Challenge is straight forward enough to be covered that way.  I am skeptical that SM specific training can be done suffciently well as a passive lecture format.  On the other hand, at least that avoids the passing on of the many scouting urban legends.  Two of my ASMs came back from their training complete with the "You have to be in uniform to be covered by insurance" nonsense

 

A standard, centralized computer-based learning module would certainly eliminate such training folklore.


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#11 SouthernTierScouter

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 12:37 PM

I have found the more modular approach has worked out well for us. An adult can do a few videos at a time, that fits their schedule instead of having to commit to an 1.5 session. People are more likely to pay attention in small bite sized time frames as well. And they appear to be generally modern for when they were made.


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#12 fred johnson

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 01:09 PM

So BSA pretends to train and the Scouter pretends to be trained.

 

That's so so true.  :)


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#13 Cleveland Rocks

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 01:25 PM

I get the intent, though, of this training that they're trying to utilize. One of the complaints district and council trainers heard all the time was that people didn't have the time to sit through classroom training, for whatever reason, which was one of the main reasons why leaders weren't taking the training they should.  Now, there's no excuse. You can do the training on your time, at your computer, and it's broken into small chunks so you don't have to devote an hour or two in one stretch if you don't want to.

 

By having you cover every topic in the syllabus with the online training, there's no more instances of an instructor omitting sections or going off the reservation with what is supposed to be taught (see the "you need your uniform for insurance" example above).  When I took SM/ASM classroom training a few years ago, the instructor skipped entire sections because he didn't think it was relevant.  When I took IOLS, what was supposed to be a two-night event was condensed down to less than 24 hours (we didn't even cook dinner even though food was purchased).  The entire time I took both classes, they kept saying all the time, "we'll try to get you out of here as quickly as possible," despite no one indicating that they were in a hurry or had to be somewhere.  The sections that were covered were rushed, and the instructors were almost apologizing that they'll try to get done as quickly as they could.  Same thing happened to me when I took Cub Scout leader training--it was always, "sorry, folks, we'll try to get you out of here soon."

 

I'm here to learn, and I've already blocked out the time in my schedule, so teach me what I need to know!

 

While I appreciate the classroom training because it gives you an opportunity to ask questions to the instructor and to the others taking the class, that doesn't help when the instructors are just mailing it in.  All it does is leave you disenchanted with the process.


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#14 Eagledad

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 02:32 PM

One aspect of training does have value to the program, it sets a standard of performance. For example, the units in our district over the years got in the habit of thinking that Scoutmaster Signature was only required on MB cards after the scouts was finished with the requirements, not before. The problem it created was the general misunderstanding that Scoutmasters could approve of disapprove the scouts performance of the requirements. We corrected the misunderstanding in training and within three years all units had the same understanding as National.

 

Of course this feeds into TAHAWK's complaint that training doesn't sufficiently teach patrol method. That is because there isn't sufficient material for the instructors to understand the subject that they teaching.

 

Barry


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#15 TAHAWK

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 03:10 PM

The SM's signature "should" be there before the work begins, but need not be if the MCB OK's the work done (G2A)

 

Since 2015, the SM can refuse to submit a MB on an Advancement Report if he determines the MB could not, in fact, have been earned. (G2A)

E.g.: Personal Management signed off by Area Director at Camp Frontier after candidate started from zero and put in five hours over five days.

 

The material to understand the Patrol Method is still extant and can be found (if one recognizes it), but has not been gathered by BSA in a coherent list, chapter, article, or discussion in decades.

 

In BOY Scouting:

1. The patrol, not the troop,  is the primary setting in which a boy experiences Boy Scouting.

The necessary corollary is that the Scout is to spend most of his Scouting time in a Patrol

context, doing patrol stuff: patrol meetings, patrol hikes, patrol Scoutcraft instruction.

 

2. A patrol is a small, largely self-selected  team of friends who, under the leadership of a Scout they elect,  experience a Scouting program they collectively plan.

 

3.  The troop is . . the youth-led “league” - a boys' league - in which patrol teams play the “game” of Boy Scouting beyond the patrol level,  as planned by the PLC under the chairmanship of the elected SPL.

 

4. Adults play the critical roles of:

     a. Safety officers

     b. Teachers of leadership

     c. Coaches and mentors

     d. Resources

     e. Examples of Values


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#16 Stosh

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 07:07 PM

Because volunteers for the American Red Cross are interacting with people on probably the worst day of their lives, they need to be trained and trained well.  90% of their training is on-line for those that want that route and classroom or Webex for those who can fit it into their schedule.

 

Like YPT, there's no real need for most of the hands-on part of training.  One can do all the First Aid and CPR training on-line and then devote an hour to come in a prove your practical skills part of the course.

 

They REQUIRE training before they will put the volunteer in the field to work with clients.  One doesn't just walk in, say they want to volunteer and then get on a plane headed out for a disaster somewhere in the US. 

 

I have spent from 8:00 am to 10 pm for three days straight Tuesday through Thursday in training..... TWICE in the past 12 months,  That doesn't count the 97 hours of on-line training I have done sitting at home in front of the computer.

 

Yes, I'm retired, but of the thousands of ARC volunteers, I'm in the minority.

 

Oh, and by the way, all the training, hotel rooms and meals are paid for by the ARC.  They mandate training and they don't expect the volunteers to be paying for it.

 

Anyone know how to help a blind person through the buffet line?  I do, I've had training for that.  How about a lost child needing to be connected to relatives following a disaster?  I've had training for that, too.  How about what it takes to prepare and deliver meals out of the back of a truck to hundreds of people three times a day?  I've had training for that, too.  And by the way, all that training was done on-line which I took sitting in my Lazy-Boy in the evening.

 

The reason ARC can do the occasional free seminar training for the high end training is because about 90% of the other training is being done on-line at no cost to the ARC.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#17 TAHAWK

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 10:26 AM

In Finland the official Boy Scout knife is either a puukko ("partiopuukko") or a shortish knife with a cross guard ("Partio Veitsi").

 

I finally got around to finding out out what "partio" means in Finnish.  It means patrol.


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