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Expired Merit Badge Counselor


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#1 dedkad

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 01:56 AM

I don't mean "expired" in the sense of passed away, I mean that I am no longer a registered MBC. Several years ago I was a registered MBC for the Family Life MB. I counseled a scout all the way through his requirements, but he never brought me a blue card to sign off. I didn't renew my registration for MBC once my year was up. Now this boy is calling me wanting me to sign off on his MB. Can I sign off even though I am no longer a registered MBC? Can I just backdate the blue card and fill in the dates when we covered each requirement?


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#2 qwazse

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 04:59 AM

First, are you sure your off the district's list of MBs? Around here it takes the failure to complete YPT or a phone call or two to drop an MBC.
I would backdate the blue card. It's true to what actually happened.
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#3 Cleveland Rocks

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 07:13 AM

If it were my council, they would return the advancement report to us because the MBC was not registered. We are required to turn the names of counselors for MBs earned when we turn in advancement reports for MBs. If they're not current, or they're not registered for the MB earned, they won't count it.

 

You can certainly try backdating the blue card. Nothing wrong with that. You were a registered MBC at the time.


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#4 Col. Flagg

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 08:52 AM

First, are you sure your off the district's list of MBs? Around here it takes the failure to complete YPT or a phone call or two to drop an MBC.
I would backdate the blue card. It's true to what actually happened.

 

This is key. Our council wrings out it's MBC list every three years. If you don't have a current YPT or have not answered their email, snail mail or survey, you are off the list.


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#5 Stosh

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 09:10 PM

I signed on as a MB counselor in my council a few years back.  I marked it available to all units in the council.  I never heard a word from them since.  I have no idea if I'm still on the roster.  And by the way, with record keeping like that it really doesn't make a whole hill of beans to me any more.  If I get a call I'll check with the Council to see if I'm registered.  If not.  I'll sign up again.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#6 Chadamus

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 09:33 PM

Similar experience here, Stosh. Back when I first registered I received no response. I later learned the only responses given are when an application is denied. Regardless, I took the initiative to follow-up on my application so I could be prepared when a Scout showed interest.
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#7 fred johnson

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 12:17 AM

If it were my council, they would return the advancement report to us because the MBC was not registered. We are required to turn the names of counselors for MBs earned when we turn in advancement reports for MBs. If they're not current, or they're not registered for the MB earned, they won't count it.

 

Wow!  You sure that was not your troop doing it instead of the council.  I'd be surprised if the council staff had time or the council had the budget to do those checks.  That's alot of work.  For many years now, we've been using online advancement.  There's no place to put the counselor name.  The paper form for recording advancement doesn't have it either.  Sounds like a troop practice and not a council practice.


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#8 Back Pack

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 05:56 AM

Wow!  You sure that was not your troop doing it instead of the council.  I'd be surprised if the council staff had time or the council had the budget to do those checks.  That's alot of work.  For many years now, we've been using online advancement.  There's no place to put the counselor name.  The paper form for recording advancement doesn't have it either.  Sounds like a troop practice and not a council practice.


My Council can't get our unit roster right, let alone know who is a valide MBC. Their own camps can't get summer camp reports correct. I doubt they'd have the time or budget for such a detail review.
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#9 Cleveland Rocks

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 08:42 AM

Wow!  You sure that was not your troop doing it instead of the council.  I'd be surprised if the council staff had time or the council had the budget to do those checks.  That's alot of work.  For many years now, we've been using online advancement.  There's no place to put the counselor name.  The paper form for recording advancement doesn't have it either.  Sounds like a troop practice and not a council practice.

No, it's our council requiring that.  I turn in the advancement reports to council since I'm closest to the council service center. There have been times that I have had the paperwork submission rejected when I turn it in at the counter because there was not an accompanying paper from the troop listing all the merit badges that we put on the advancement report, along with the name of the counselor (we only put "Summer Camp" if the Scout earned the badge at Summer Camp). It might even have the BSA Member ID on it, if we happen to know it.  I've then had to go back at a later time when I've had all the paperwork with me.  I'm not the Troop Advancement chair, but he's told me that there have been cases where the troop has been called later, after they've reviewed the paperwork and told that so-and-so wasn't on the list (I don't know what the consequence is).  It's not an official form, just a list that we print in Word or Excel and submit at the time we submit the advancement report hard copies to council.

 

We do Internet Advancement but of course still turn in the paper version to council when I go to pick up the awards.  Our council won't let me pick up any awards without the advancement report, and they check the quantities.  If I'm picking up six First Class badges, there'd better be six entries on the advancement report showing six Scouts earned First Class.

 

Our council does a pretty thorough job with merit badge counselors, in my opinion. We get forms from them every year listing what badges we're counselors for, and whether we want to re-up for next year as counselors. We're allowed to be counselors for 15 badges, and only 6 can be Eagle-required. If you are a counselor for one of the badges that requires certification (climbing, rifle, shotgun, whitewater and scuba) you have to submit a copy of your current, up-to-date certification.  Same for YPT--they won't accept your paperwork if your YPT isn't current. If you don't submit all the paperwork on time (i.e., you're lazy and forgot to turn it in before the deadline), you will have to start from scratch in order to re-up (fill out a new application and disclosure form). Our council also did away with separate lists for troop-only counselors. We can no longer say we will only work with just Scouts from our troop. They do say, though, that you have the option to decline a youth's request if you receive a call from a Scout outside your unit. They also update the counselor list four times a year. It's a password-protected document, and they change the password every year. They only give the password to the council advancement committee, Scoutmasters, Committee Chairs, and unit advancement chairs.

 

Our registrar is very thorough.


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#10 dedkad

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 11:31 PM

Similar experience here, Stosh. Back when I first registered I received no response. I later learned the only responses given are when an application is denied. Regardless, I took the initiative to follow-up on my application so I could be prepared when a Scout showed interest.

I spent a fair amount of time going through the list of merit badges and the requirements for each one to see what MB's I was qualified for. I had to fill out an application (I'll call it a a "resume") with explanations of why I was qualified to be a MBC for each of them, and then also complete the BSA application for MBC. I can't even remember which MB's I ended up signing up for. When the following year rolled around and I was told that I had to do the exact same process over again and nobody bothered to keep a copy of my previous "resume", I got fed up and didn't re-register. I'm a volunteer. They shouldn't make it hard to be a volunteer. 


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#11 fred johnson

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 10:01 AM

We do Internet Advancement but of course still turn in the paper version to council when I go to pick up the awards.  Our council won't let me pick up any awards without the advancement report, and they check the quantities.  If I'm picking up six First Class badges, there'd better be six entries on the advancement report showing six Scouts earned First Class.

 

The process seems strange.  Something just doesn't add up.

 

If your troop does BSA Online Internet Advancement, the award is recorded and official.  

 

Now that it's official, you just need to pick up the badges.  In BSA Internet Advancement, use the "Advancement Report" and print that out.  It's BSA's official report that is formatted for the scout shops to use.  The scout shops are not council owned and operated.  They are BSA owned and operated.  As such, they should accept their own report consistently across all stores.  That's what they use at our store.  The only thing I could imagine is if your scout shop is so small that the council employees are also BSA employees and staff the scout store.  

 

The BSA Advancement Report even has a pick-sheet telling how many of each award to purchase.  

 

Internet advancement has an "Advancement Report" who's main purpose is to bring to scout stores to buy awards.  To be honest, I'd have a hard time respecting that process.  


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#12 Cleveland Rocks

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 11:03 AM

Only National Scout Shops are owned by the BSA. Our council's Scout Store is council owned and operated. The employees are council employees. Of the 8 scout stores within 100 miles of me, only 3 are national stores; the other 5 are council-owned shops.

 

We submit the advancement report electronically via Internet Advancement (isn't it required now?) and then print out a hard copy to bring to the store. They will not permit me to pick up awards without that hard copy with me, and it had better be signed. Those hard copies from Internet Advancement are just filled-out versions of the carbonless forms you get from Council.  I even bring two copies with me, so the Scout Store people can stamp one as received, and then I bring that back to the Troop with me. The council I was previously in operated the same way. No hard copy of the advancement report, no awards pickup. They will count out awards and make sure it matches the pick sheet and advancement report.

 

I've spoken to other Scouters who have said their Scout Store operates the same way--no paperwork, no awards. Of course, not every Scout Store out there operates so stringently. There are plenty of stores out there that will let you pick up awards without paperwork, especially if they know who you are.

 

Now, admittedly, our council appears to be unique in these merit badge submission requirements, however no one has challenged them on it. If you want merit badges, you do the paperwork. I have not met anyone in our council that has had a problem with it.


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#13 Col. Flagg

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 11:05 AM

The process seems strange.  Something just doesn't add up.

 

If your troop does BSA Online Internet Advancement, the award is recorded and official.  

 

My council does the same thing. You need to print the report or you can't get any rank or MB if buying for the troop. They will not accept anything else. No report, no badges. 


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#14 fred johnson

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 11:17 AM

My council does the same thing. You need to print the report or you can't get any rank or MB if buying for the troop. They will not accept anything else. No report, no badges. 

 

Agreed.  Same with us.  

 

I just have a hard time reconciling that the scout shop verifies the merit badge counselor name on the advancement report.  If they are not current, they won't sell you the merit badge.  In our council, the scout shop and council advancement staff have no idea which merit badge counselor was used.  It's verified in the troop.  No verification is done at council level.
 

 

AHHH ... I see what is confusing ... I left a partial edit.  "respecting that process" .... What I meant by "having a hard time respecting" was a process that requires me to report the merit badge counselor name.  It's really none of the council's business after I've submitted my BSA online advancement.  Now, if the council wants us to hand-in all blue cards and the council types the data into BSA Internet Advancement, fine.  They can verify the merit badge counselor.  But if they want us to submit it into BSA Internet Advancement and it's official, then it's to late for a council to review the merit badge councilor.  It's just noise at that point.  What would they do?  Go into the record and un-record the merit badge?  I suspect instead the scout will have it officially recorded, but they won't get a merit badge.  That's just a bad  process.  Plus what's the fix?  The fix would be me as a scout leader to go find a registered MBC and have them sign it.  No scout involved.  Unless it's out-right fraud, the scout's already done and I've accepted the badge.  Instead what is really going on usually is the MBC fell off the list because he has to re-register every year or two.  


Edited by fred johnson, 08 May 2017 - 11:26 AM.

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#15 Col. Flagg

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 11:38 AM

I just have a hard time reconciling that the scout shop verifies the merit badge counselor name on the advancement report.  If they are not current, they won't sell you the merit badge.  In our council, the scout shop and council advancement staff have no idea which merit badge counselor was used.  It's verified in the troop.  No verification is done at council level.

 

My council does NOT to that. They do wring out the MBC list as others have suggested here. They do this annually.


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#16 Cleveland Rocks

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 02:46 PM

I just have a hard time reconciling that the scout shop verifies the merit badge counselor name on the advancement report.  If they are not current, they won't sell you the merit badge.  In our council, the scout shop and council advancement staff have no idea which merit badge counselor was used.  It's verified in the troop.  No verification is done at council level.

The people in the Scout Shop don't verify the name on the advancement report before selling us the merit badge, but they won't sell us the merit badge if I don't present them with the list of who the MBCs were.  The registrar later checks it over.  I know, that's after the fact, and by then, we've already picked up the badges and depending on timing, may have already presented the badge to the Scout.  I have no idea what they do if they find someone on the list who is no longer registered as an MBC.

 

I just know that when I go to pick up badges, if I'm picking up merit badges, I have to present them not only with a hard copy of the Advancement Report, but also a list of MBCs used for each badge.  I don't know what the council/registrar does with it after I turn it in, but we all do it and no one that I am aware of has pushed back on it. One time I forgot to bring the list, and I couldn't buy the MBs until I came back with that list.


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#17 Col. Flagg

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 04:47 PM

The people in the Scout Shop don't verify the name on the advancement report before selling us the merit badge, but they won't sell us the merit badge if I don't present them with the list of who the MBCs were.  The registrar later checks it over.  I know, that's after the fact, and by then, we've already picked up the badges and depending on timing, may have already presented the badge to the Scout.  I have no idea what they do if they find someone on the list who is no longer registered as an MBC.

 

Wow....I'm astounded at the inefficiency and pointlessness of that whole process. I'm sorry your council does all that.


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#18 5yearscouter

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 04:56 PM

Used to be that you'd have to attach a copy of the blue cards to the handwritten advancement report to buy awards

Scout shop would take that advancement report and council would file it in the troop's file folder at council.
Sometimes at council someone would actually enter the scout's advancement in something like scout net, because units didn't have internet advancement yet.

 

Then when a scout went for eagle they'd pull out the file and make sure there was actually advancement records and blue cards for every merit badge.

I guess that was when councils had a lot of volunteers hanging out at the council office, those councils would go thru those blue cards and make sure they were signed off by an actual registered mb counselor.

 

With the use of internet advancement, Most councils have moved on from this process some to the point that you just show them the advancement report an don't even keep a copy and let the electronic scout net record speak for itself.

, but there are a few councils that want to keep us all honest by forcing extra steps where they still want the internet advancement form and some want blue cards, copy of blue cards or at least names of merit badge counselors so they can muddle about with it.

They have too much time on their hands.


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#19 5yearscouter

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 05:01 PM

For expired mb counselors,

fill out the adult application, put position code 42, mb counselor, sign it

sign the disclosure

write your bsa id number on it if known and write duplicate position at the top if you are also registered in somewhere else so they don't MOVE you from your unit to the mb counselor list (they do that sometimes)

print copy of your ypt certificate

fill out the mb counselor information form

find your proof of safe swim or shooting sports training as needed.

 

Scan the whole shebang and send it to your council registrar

say you seem to have been dropped from the mb counselor list but you should have been registered continuously since DATE fire did this.

 

Keep a copy of this.

update your training and your ypt as needed

send a copy of this to your registrar as needed any time you are dropped from the mb counselor list.

 

Check scout book, and your my.scouting.org info.

Both should show you as a mb counselor if you are one.


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#20 andysmom

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 06:30 AM

My council has a form that we need to print out that list the scout's name the merit badge he is receiving, the date of completion and the counselors name.  They must be turned in with the advancement reports so council can be sure the MBC is on the list.  I usually don't have trouble getting awards but some overzealous Scout Shop employees want to check the paperwork. 

MBC lists are put together by our districts.  Every year they confirm YPT and ask if the counselor wants to stay on the list or be dropped.  At least that is how our old district did it, we had a district reorganization take effect Jan. 1 (our old district was dissolved, separated and merged into other existing districts) and we haven't received a list from the new district (DAC called our old district's MBC list "a mess")


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