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Pack not allowed to produce own recruitment flyers?


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#1 Cubmaster Pete

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 05:58 PM

This spring our pack decided to produce our own recruitment flyers. When council heard this, my DE told us that units are not allowed to produce their own flyers and we need to use the ones national provides due to "Branding Issues"

 

Is this true, and if it is can anyone provide documentation?


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#2 T2Eagle

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 07:17 PM

That's silly.  I guess it's Hypothetically possible that you could run afoul of copyright or trademark rules if you use those owned by BSA, but a) it's unlikely, and b) BSA would have to see your material, run it by their lawyers, and then notify you that they believe you're in violation.  This would take you way past recruitment.

 

Outside of trademark/copyright no rules exist that would keep you from making your own flyers.  I've done it, and continue to do it, because I can use pictures, images, and messages specific to my units and my CO.

 

When someone tells you something like this the best thing to do is smile, thank them for their help, take whatever materials they want to give you, and then go do what you intended to do anyway.  What are they going to do, turn down your kids' applications because they were recruited using non official flyers?


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#3 Chisos

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 07:42 PM

Never heard of that.  We've sent home flyers we made on multiple occasions.

Council has also made flyers for us.  A couple of times they made flyers without talking to us first.  Those usually had wrong information on them (dues, roundup date/time, etc).

Other times they worked with us to make something we both liked.  That was nice because they paid for all the printing.


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#4 Back Pack

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 08:59 PM

This spring our pack decided to produce our own recruitment flyers. When council heard this, my DE told us that units are not allowed to produce their own flyers and we need to use the ones national provides due to "Branding Issues"
 
Is this true, and if it is can anyone provide documentation?


How about the fact that BSA makes their logo and other recruiting matieral freely available to anyone with a web browser?

If they wanted councils to control such things they could put it under access control like they do for other things they want only Council to have. Heck, there's a whole section of the site dedicated to BSA logos, templates and recruiting stuff for print and social media. Someone is full of horse hockey at your Council.

http://scoutingwire....scouting-logos/
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#5 MattR

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 09:32 PM

How to say this courteously .... Ask the DE to show you, on scouting.org where it says you can't make your own recruitment fliers.

 

Here is a document that explains how you can use BSA registered trademarks: http://www.scouting....df/310-0231.pdf

 

While the BSA fleur-de-lis is a registered trademark, just a plain old fleur-de-lis probably isn't (otherwise the New Orleans Saints would be in trouble). You can use the BSA one but you have to use their colors and a few other things.

 

Point being, go ahead and make recruitment fliers. Make it fun. Make it exciting. And include a picture of you getting pied.


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#6 mashmaster

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 09:58 PM

Our DE once told us that.  I asked him what was more important, getting boys into the program or using their fliers.  He agreed, just make your own that are fun and informative.  What is the worst thing they can do?  They aren't going to fire a volunteer.


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#7 RememberSchiff

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 06:46 AM

Sounds like a verse to add to Benny Bell's Shaving Cream* 

 

My DE told our sad pack

Our recruitment flyers were a no

I thought I would ask on scouter.com

And found my DE full of

Shaving cream, be nice and clean
Shave every day and you'll always look keen

 

* first heard and sung at my scout camp, back in the day. :eek:


Edited by RememberSchiff, 03 May 2017 - 07:01 AM.

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#8 blw2

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 08:52 AM

yeah, NFC "rebranded" their recruiting night a few years back.  They wanted us to use their documents

I really didn't see much of an issue there...but what I didn't like was that they forbid us from collecting pack dues or pack fees at the recruiting night.  We could only collect the national dues and Boys Life fee.  To me, that was just goofy and created issues.


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#9 fred johnson

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 09:38 AM

... what I didn't like was that they forbid us from collecting pack dues or pack fees at the recruiting night.  We could only collect the national dues and Boys Life fee.  To me, that was just goofy and created issues.

 

Same for our packs.  Huge issues because the council only collects what they are concerned with.  Then the pack has to upset the family when they say "Well, you really owe this much more.".  It's misrepresenting the cost and insulting to the unit leaders.  It instantly creates a separation and hard feelings between the council and the unit.  It's just wrong.  

 

I should correct myself.  On recruiting night, the pack collects what the pack needs.  Period.  We've never been told we can only collect BSA membership dues.  The issue is with the new council / national online self-registration system.  If someone joins the pack through that system, they only pay "part" of the cost.  So then they are a member of BSA .... but ....

 

The pack doesn't consider them part of the pack until they pay pack dues.  I just don't understand what national / council are thinking.  Are they saying units can't collect membership dues?  I've never seen BSA say units can't collect dues.  So if a unit has membership dues, can you still be a unit member and not pay the unit dues?  It seems wrong to promote this in-between undefined quasi state of being a BSA member but not fully a member of the registered unit.


Edited by fred johnson, 03 May 2017 - 09:48 AM.

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#10 gumbymaster

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 01:41 PM

This is certainly an issue with the on-line system.

 

It would not be so bad, if there were a place to at least also indicate the unit's fee structure ...

 

 

$24 to National for Registration (is it prorated for months to recharter?)

$12 (optional) for the Boy's Life Subscription

This will be collected on-line, today

 

Additional Fees (units could have a place to enter the information)

$XX Council Insurance Fee

$XX Unit Dues

   some dens may have additional "Den Dues < $XX/year

   some pack activities may have additional activity fees

 

  With your unit dues payment, the unit will provide (book, neckerchief, unit numbers, or whatever they do/don't provide).

 

Application Fees for accepted adult leaders will be reimbursed by the unit (if your unit does this)

 

These will be collected by the unit at your first meeting, please make checks payable to "Unit YYY")

 

----

 

National doesn't want to add this to their system because it is too hard to keep track of all the individual unit fee structures and they don't want to collect the money belonging to other organizations (unit/cor) and have to reimburse or write out a check for it

 

The Units don't want to lose the ~3% credit card processing fee that would also happen (plus any additional fee national might put on as a convenience fee).

 

However, until these challenges are addressed, I doubt that either the units I work with are likely to turn on the on-line registration option.


Edited by gumbymaster, 03 May 2017 - 01:42 PM.

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