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Catholic Diocese boots out GS


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#21 RememberSchiff

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 04:55 AM

I see a Catholic youth (youth/family) program forming that does not involve a generic,outside youth program which may be doing less than hoped, from the Church viewpoint, to boost youth involvement in the Church.

 

A hard fact, there are fewer Catholic children attending a Catholic school than there are Cub Scouts in the US. Our local elementary/secondary school closes this June. My younger son's weekend Confirmation classes resemble Scouting in terms of activities, service requirements, and time commitment (more reading/study). More and more time conflicts.  Back in the day when more Catholics attended Catholic schools and Catechism classes, the Church taught religion and the troop taught scouting with the Scout Oath and Law as the bridge.

 

http://www.ncea.org/...chool_Data.aspx

 

My $0.01


Edited by RememberSchiff, 03 May 2017 - 05:15 AM.

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#22 bearess

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 05:03 AM

I agree, denominations/COs get to vote with their feet. So do parishioners/girls. It sounds like the diocese is being responsible and giving troops a long time to find new COs. Around here most GS troops are chartered by schools, anyway.
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#23 GSMOM73

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 08:06 AM

Actually Girls Scouts troops are not chartered at all.  IMO its the Catholic churches loss.  I hope the girls are able to find other supporters in their communities.  I would like to point out that this is just one region that has decided to drop Girls Scouts.  My area still welcomes and supports our local gs troops.


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#24 Back Pack

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 08:40 AM

Not just Catholic religious training and sacraments that are taking more time. All denominations in my area require a great deal of time for confirmation, etc.
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#25 Stosh

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 11:19 AM

The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod made a similar pronouncement due the the changes in the BSA, how is this any different?

 

If the principles and policies of an organization conflict with that of another, why would it have any affect on the members.  They have a choice to go anywhere they wish to go, even if the organizations differ.  If a member of the LCMS or Catholic diocese doesn't want their children involved in an organization they can move.  A CO has that same option available to them.  If a Catholic Church shuts down a BSA or GS/USA unit because they no longer wish to support the policies of those organizations, the members have a free choice of staying with the program in a different location.  Just as CO's and parent organizations to CO's can make choices, so can individual members.  If the parent organizations drop one program and go with another it is no different than a parent making such a decision either.


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#26 Col. Flagg

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 11:36 AM

Having a vested interest as a Scouter and as a father of a Scout makes me feel worse for the boys.

I will not assume opportunities will present themselves for all the girls affected. The 27 units in your county are a great example of why. 

 

The boys were not lost in the shuffle. Other units stepped up and took the boys. It was BSA who lost out as 27 COs went away and were not replaced. That hurt the BSA employees who are evaluated based on the number of units that exist or are started. Imagine being the DEs who lost those units through no fault of their own.

 

If the adults who run those GSUSA units affected, and GSUSA themselves, want to avoid having this impact the girls it is within their power to do so. Other units can step up and take them. Other COs can step up and charter them. This is not the fault of the Diocese. 


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#27 bsaggcmom

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 12:11 PM

As GSMOM73 said, GSUSA doesn't have CO's like BSA. Leaders sign the agreement with the GS council and the troop is off and running. If the Catholic Church doesn't want to endorse GSUSA anymore the GS troops there just have a harder time recruiting and have lost a meeting space. GS troops aren't dependent on CO's to give them meeting space they have to find their own place to meet. My GS troop meets at a church, we pay a weekly rental fees that the girls fund through yearly dues to the unit. Some units meet in leaders homes, public meeting rooms in local libraries or if they are lucky they are allowed to use a room at a school.  

 

If Catholic parents in KC want their daughters to be a GS then they can do so. It just won't be at their local Catholic school/church anymore. Maybe not as convenient as it used to be, but still available. I see it as a loss for the church as a whole. No more little service projects to help the parish, no more Scout Sunday masses that include all scouts, and less exposure for the church in the general population's eyes. Not every girl in a troop at a Catholic facility is Catholic. Those girls and their families are lost as potential converts to the Catholic church. Gone are the little donations from such families because they aren't there anymore.

 

My family routinely donates a few dollars, a few cans of foods or a little bit of time to the church that our GS troop meets at. It isn't our church, isn't in our town. no connections except the GS troop meets there. We do it because it benefits the facility that is kind enough to rent us some space. It a round about way we  see it as benefiting our GS troop. Nice to them, nice to us thing. The Catholic church in KC is about to ruin this type of relationship. So sad. 


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#28 Fehler

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 12:25 PM

I'm perplexed by this announcement.  The reasons the Archbishop lists are not due to any specific teaching/motivation/activity of the Girl Scouts in his diocese, or even in the GSUSA as a whole.  Its all based on a perceived connection between the GSUSA, the World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts, and issues/positions the WAGGGS and other WAGGGS member organizations have taken.  There doesn't seem to be anything specific about the GSUSA.  Ties between the Girl Scouts and Planned Parenthood are a complete myth (sorry, "Alternate Fact".)

 

This announcement is based on a lie, or is using the lie as a convenient excuse to do what they were going to do anyways (replace the Girls Scouts with AHG Troops)


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#29 Eagledad

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 12:55 PM

This isn't something new, our district was dealing with churches dropping units 25 years ago. Sometimes church leaders find it's not worth the effort to support the youth group that doesn't hold to or even struggles holding to the values of the church. The problem we had with such drops is getting the church to consider a new unit with more like minded adults. They generally don't.

 

Barry


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"Experience is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first, then the lesson."


#30 Chadamus

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 01:06 PM

GSMOM73 & bsaggcmom thank you for the clarification. I did not know Girl Scout units do not have Chartered Organizations.
Fehler, these 'alternate facts' are why I asked previously: what is being opposed?

Edited for spelling.

Edited by Chadamus, 03 May 2017 - 01:06 PM.

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#31 NJCubScouter

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 01:30 PM

The boys were not lost in the shuffle. Other units stepped up and took the boys. It was BSA who lost out as 27 COs went away and were not replaced. That hurt the BSA employees who are evaluated based on the number of units that exist or are started. Imagine being the DEs who lost those units through no fault of their own.

 

I would like to think that the BSA and councils made some sort of adjustment to reduce the impact on the professionals of the units that left due to the membership changes.  It would be kind of unfair to do otherwise.  It would be particularly unfair given the differing impact of that decision in different parts of the country.  My council probably did not lose any units at all because of that, or at least very few, whereas there are obviously some parts of the country where that was not the case, for example, where you live.

 

Note I am not saying I think the BSA DID make that adjustment.  I have no idea whether they did or not.  I would just like to think they did.


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#32 Col. Flagg

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 01:37 PM

Well this sources seems to document so interesting things GSUSA councils have been involved in. Does not look like fake news.

 

http://mygirlscoutco...s-councils.html

 

http://mygirlscoutco...s-councils.html


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#33 Fehler

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 02:03 PM

And the GSUSA FAQ page about social issues:  http://www.girlscout...ial-issues.html

 

Excerpt:

Does GSUSA have a relationship with Planned Parenthood?  

No, Girl Scouts of the USA does not have a relationship or partnership with Planned Parenthood.


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#34 TAHAWK

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 02:07 PM

GSA has no official position on abortion or planned parenthood.  GSA simply supports abortion and Planned Parenthood in many other ways.  And why is GSA so shy about it?  Nothing wrong with having a position on one of the great social and moral issues of the time.

 

GSA holds up Gloria Steinem (co-founder of Choice USA), Margaret Sanger, and Betty Friedan as role models.  What is the message?  Are their positions on abortion trivial?  I would think they would proudly say no.

 

GSA tells its members that Media Matters is the arbiter of the good and true in media.  MM is anti-anti-abortion.  What is the message?

 

Anna Marie Chavez, GSA CEO from 2011-2016  https://www.philanth...outs-CEO/236826 was an active supporter of pro-abortion rights candidates and policies .  

 

Officially, GSA has no relationship with Planned Parenthood, beyond holding up Planned Parenthood icons as models.  But GSA councils have named strong supporters of Planned Parenthood as "Girls Scout Greats." Example: Leticia Van De Putte, NARAL-endorsed candidate for Lt. Governor of Texas.

 

I submit that the position noted in the OP is not built on a lie but on disagreement with the behavior of the GSA.  


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#35 NJCubScouter

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 02:13 PM

Well this sources seems to document so interesting things GSUSA councils have been involved in. Does not look like fake news.

 

http://mygirlscoutco...s-councils.html

 

http://mygirlscoutco...s-councils.html

 

What it looks like is an anti-Girl Scouts web site.  Based on the original article linked in this thread, the GSUSA denies many of the affiliations alleged in this web site.  If I had to decide who to believe, I'll go with the GSUSA.  But of course what I think has nothing to do with what this thread is about.  A church or diocese has the right to affiliate or dis-affiliate with whatever groups it wants, based on the facts, or non-facts, or whatever criteria it chooses.  Whether it is a good idea or not is a separate question, but since this thread involves a religion that is not mine, I don't think it's my place to comment on that issue.


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#36 David CO

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 02:22 PM

 

And the GSUSA FAQ page about social issues:  http://www.girlscout...ial-issues.html

 

Excerpt:

Does GSUSA have a relationship with Planned Parenthood?  

No, Girl Scouts of the USA does not have a relationship or partnership with Planned Parenthood.

 

 

Is this from the same FAQ page that says that the Girl Scouts welcome male leaders?


Edited by David CO, 03 May 2017 - 02:25 PM.

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#37 Stosh

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 02:25 PM

The Catholic Church touts itself as a Christian based group.  AHG touts itself as a Christian based group.  GS/USA does not.  End of discussion.


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Stosh

 

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#38 Chadamus

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 02:36 PM

So religious discrimination?


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#39 TAHAWK

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 02:40 PM

What it looks like is an anti-Girl Scouts web site.  B

Any anti, or pro, source should be taken with the proverbial "grain of salt.  That's why it's so tough to council on the duty and obligation of a citizen to be informed.  Everywhere you go, it's spin. spin, spin.

 

So religious discrimination?

 

Yes.  So?  Religious discrimination by private parties is a necessary consequence of freedom of religion and Constitutionally protected.


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#40 Chadamus

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 02:43 PM

I'm not trying to be the moral authority for anyone TAHAWK. Because one can discriminate, doesn't mean one should. Just sayin'.


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