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Philmont question - Arrival target time each day?


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#41 RememberSchiff

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 09:11 AM

Back in the day, four of us scouts asked and received permission from our one adult advisor to ascend Baldy on an afternoon hike. There was no sign-in log. Our plan was to reach treeline by nightfall and see the sunrise from the peak. We got about 2/3's the way up before pitching tents for the night.  Since a peak ascent in time for sunrise now seemed unlikely to us, we waited on the trail the next morning for the rest of our patrol (6 scouts and advisor) and summited as a whole patrol by early afternoon. Our advisor had this look on his face - "this is how I thought this would play out".

 

Upon returning down, there was a thunder shower with ball lightning hitting a peak south of Baldie.

 

Great experience.


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#42 Sentinel947

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 10:14 AM

Back in the day, four of us scouts asked and received permission from our one adult advisor to ascend Baldy on an afternoon hike. There was no sign-in log. Our plan was to reach treeline by nightfall and see the sunrise from the peak. We got about 2/3's the way up before pitching tents for the night.  Since a peak ascent in time for sunrise now seemed unlikely to us, we waited on the trail the next morning for the rest of our patrol (6 scouts and advisor) and summited as a whole patrol by early afternoon. Our advisor had this look on his face - "this is how I thought this would play out".
 
Upon returning down, there was a thunder shower with ball lightning hitting a peak south of Baldie.
 
Great experience.


Sounds awesome! But we all know how things have changed in the name of managing risk. Casuality of lots of inexperienced hikers and sue happy folks.
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#43 Ankylus

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 01:49 PM

@RememberSchiff,

There is only one at Philmont I know of. Summiting Baldy has a time you must check in at Baldy Town Camp. Philmonts reason is so that crews have a reasonable time to summit and descend the mountain before frequent afternoon thunderstorms.

 

This was not true in 2010. We started out from Miranda on our layover day, climbed Baldie without checking in with anybody, and then descended down the other side of Baldie to Baldie Town. We even took a side trip to French Henry before going to Baldie Town. Maybe they changed the policy in the last 7 years. Perhaps I will find out in July, although we don't get to hit Baldie.


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#44 jmartine

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 04:18 PM

Joe these are almost the same selections we made. I don't have time right now to take a look and give you ALL the detail we looked at, but here are my off hand recollections:

 

 

Wow, great advice! Thanks so much Col. Flagg! We're very anxious to find out which itinerary we get.

 

-Joe


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#45 jmartine

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 04:19 PM

Does anyone know when we can REALISTICALLY expect to find out our assigned trek?

 

Our assigned date to submit preferences was on April 4th, and I submitted our choices right when the button became active. I had been expecting that we'd get an almost instant confirmation of our assigned trek, since I thought it was supposed to be first-come-first-served based on when you submit your choices. Instead, I got back a response saying that we'd find out what trek we get by June 1st. I don't see any reason why it should take anywhere near that long. It's been 2 weeks now, and nothing.

 

Honestly, I don't see why the web server can't just make the assignments instantly if it's first-come-first-served.

 

-Joe


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#46 Col. Flagg

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 05:21 PM

Does anyone know when we can REALISTICALLY expect to find out our assigned trek?

 

Our assigned date to submit preferences was on April 4th, and I submitted our choices right when the button became active. I had been expecting that we'd get an almost instant confirmation of our assigned trek, since I thought it was supposed to be first-come-first-served based on when you submit your choices. Instead, I got back a response saying that we'd find out what trek we get by June 1st. I don't see any reason why it should take anywhere near that long. It's been 2 weeks now, and nothing.

 

Honestly, I don't see why the web server can't just make the assignments instantly if it's first-come-first-served.

 

-Joe

 

Fairly fast BUT it depends on your dates. We were are the end of the summer, so we were one of the last to find out. Obivously, they assign June then July then August. We found out in mid-May for August. If you have a sister crew or other "odd" logistics (i.e., allergies, special needs, etc.) it will take a bit longer.

 

They need to make sure they don't have too many crews going over the same trails too much. They need to manage the "pass throughs" at various staff camps. They have to manage logistics at commissary locations, etc. They have a template that they use that allows them to know capacity over trails, camp sites and staff locations. They have to marry all of that with the requests.

 

Assuming you have an early date and less-popular trek, you might hear very fast. Otherwise, expect to wait. You will certainly know 6 weeks or more before you go...unless you are in June.


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#47 Sentinel947

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 06:24 PM

This was not true in 2010. We started out from Miranda on our layover day, climbed Baldie without checking in with anybody, and then descended down the other side of Baldie to Baldie Town. We even took a side trip to French Henry before going to Baldie Town. Maybe they changed the policy in the last 7 years. Perhaps I will find out in July, although we don't get to hit Baldie.


I went in 2011 and 2015. Both times we did Baldy. Both times the logistics team at Philmont HQ told us we had to check in at Baldy town before going up the mountain.
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#48 Back Pack

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 06:54 PM

I went in 2011 and 2015. Both times we did Baldy. Both times the logistics team at Philmont HQ told us we had to check in at Baldy town before going up the mountain.


Went in 2010 and had to do the same thing. Some crews ignored or didn't hear the instructions and summited anyway. One crew that did that was the same crew that had a bear attack their scout in the tent. Eating food in tent.
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#49 Petey091

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 07:16 PM

On our shakedown trips we get up at 6am and try to be on the trail by 7am at the latest. We usually stop after a while to eat a cold breakfast. We plan on traveling at a two mile an hour pace and add another hour for every thousand feet of elevation change.
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#50 Ankylus

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 01:44 PM

Does anyone know when we can REALISTICALLY expect to find out our assigned trek?

 

Our assigned date to submit preferences was on April 4th, and I submitted our choices right when the button became active. I had been expecting that we'd get an almost instant confirmation of our assigned trek, since I thought it was supposed to be first-come-first-served based on when you submit your choices. Instead, I got back a response saying that we'd find out what trek we get by June 1st. I don't see any reason why it should take anywhere near that long. It's been 2 weeks now, and nothing.

 

Honestly, I don't see why the web server can't just make the assignments instantly if it's first-come-first-served.

 

-Joe

 

We have had our trek assignment for a couple of weeks. But we are on a 2-week trek...might be different.


Edited by Ankylus, 19 April 2017 - 01:44 PM.

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#51 Ankylus

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 01:46 PM

Went in 2010 and had to do the same thing. Some crews ignored or didn't hear the instructions and summited anyway. One crew that did that was the same crew that had a bear attack their scout in the tent. Eating food in tent.

 

Maybe our adult leader just ignored it then.


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#52 jmartine

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 06:14 PM

Fairly fast BUT it depends on your dates. We were are the end of the summer, so we were one of the last to find out. Obivously, they assign June then July then August. We found out in mid-May for August. If you have a sister crew or other "odd" logistics (i.e., allergies, special needs, etc.) it will take a bit longer.

 

They need to make sure they don't have too many crews going over the same trails too much. They need to manage the "pass throughs" at various staff camps. They have to manage logistics at commissary locations, etc. They have a template that they use that allows them to know capacity over trails, camp sites and staff locations. They have to marry all of that with the requests.

 

Assuming you have an early date and less-popular trek, you might hear very fast. Otherwise, expect to wait. You will certainly know 6 weeks or more before you go...unless you are in June.

 

Thanks. Our trek is the last week of June. Hopefully we'll hear soon.


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#53 my_three_sons

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 08:37 AM

Sorry I haven't been on the forum for a week so this might post might be a little long.

 

Last year we went on a 12 day trek at the end of July and put our itinerary choices in on April 19th then got our itinerary on the 20th. I don't know if the 7 day treks are different but give them a call and see when they will be drawn.

 

There was a question about hiking real early. We were told we had to wait to for sunrise to start hiking because of bears. That being said the staff at Miranda told us that they weren't up early in the morning to check if anyone left before sunrise.

 

Checking in with Baldy Town is mainly for them to give you a weather report. The day before we climbed Baldy some of the staff at Miranda had to go up Baldy to help an adult advisor who got caught in a rain storm. Once he got wet and cold he stopped for a while to warm up and he pretty much went down hill from there.

 

My suggestion to the crew advisor would be to plan on being on the trail at sunrise. If you get into staff camp late you can always do a program in the next morning but that puts you behind the next day.  Its nicer to hike during the morning that later in the day when either it going to start to get really hot or be raining. How early you need to get up to be on the trail at sunrise is up to your crew. When we started out the first day it was taking up close to an hour but toward the end it was under 30 minutes.  I would spend some time during our shakedowns setting up and tearing down camp over and over.

 

In the end give your suggestion to the crew leader and let the scouts lead. They will make mistakes but there are consequences so they will adapt.  In the beginning our crew leader would always allow one member of our crew to talk him into taking 20 minutes breaks after a few days of finishing out hikes in the rain he learned that sometimes a leader has to be the bad guy and say 'no'.

 

Post your itinerary number once you get it and I might have more input specifically for your trek.


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#54 elitts

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 08:34 AM

This was not true in 2010. We started out from Miranda on our layover day, climbed Baldie without checking in with anybody, and then descended down the other side of Baldie to Baldie Town. We even took a side trip to French Henry before going to Baldie Town. Maybe they changed the policy in the last 7 years. Perhaps I will find out in July, although we don't get to hit Baldie.

 

That's how I did it in 1990 as well.  It was a fantastic trip, and my crew certainly looked a whole lot happier than the folks that climbed it with their packs on.  Of course, the average pack weight was 60-80lbs back then too, so that might be a little better now.

 

Personally, one of the best memories I have of Baldy was going down to Baldie town by jumping down the side of the mountain into piles of rock.  Then, getting to Baldy town, skipped getting a snack and taking a shower.  (the first in 5 days of monsoon)  I was the first kid into the showers by a good 15 minutes, so it was still hot.  That may well still be the best shower I've ever taken.


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#55 jmartine

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 09:35 AM

I just wanted to let everyone know that we now have our itinerary assignment. It's #7-4. It ended up being the easiest trek of all the preferences that we put in. 


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#56 Col. Flagg

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:09 AM

I just wanted to let everyone know that we now have our itinerary assignment. It's #7-4. It ended up being the easiest trek of all the preferences that we put in. 

 

It this it? If so, a few suggestions:

  • Cathedral Rock is gorgeous. Try to hike through the demonstration forest just north of there if you can. It's in the opposite direction of where you are going, so it depends on where they drop you off. Great photo opportunity at Cathedral Rock.
     
  • The hike to Clark's Fork is pretty easy and only slightly up hill. Your camp at Ponderosa Park is a good bit from Clark's Fork so you will want to check in with the staff at Clark's to see what they suggest. I might even have your Crew Lead see if you could camp at Clark's that night. You are headed south anyway and camping at Clark's would save you running back and forth. Make sure you get up EARLY to get to Clark's for your horseback ride if you have them in the late afternoon. If you have them in the AM the following morning you are okay. Don't forget your chocolate milk at Miner's Park!! Bears usually in this area too, so be loud.
     
  • The hike from Clark's Fork to Crater is mostly uphill. You will have some long climbs that day. This would be the day to leave MEGA early because you have your pole climbing that same day. If you miss your pole climbing you might be able to work it in the following morning AFTER your conservation project. You need that for your Arrowhead, so if you have to miss one of these than miss the pole climbing. The campfire the night you arrive is AWESOME. Have video ready because the Tooth is in the background. It is one of my favorite memories of Philmont.

    The trek from Crater to Urraca is pretty tame. There are a few climbs and a few routes you can take. After you climb the mountain past Bears Cave, it is pretty much down hill to the valley that runs in to Urraca. Make sure you have poles to cross the rivers. The snow pack is pretty good this year so the snow melt should have the rivers high and wet. ;)
     
  • Going from Urraca to Abreau you will have one steep climb over Toothache Springs, unless you take Stonewall Pass. I would suggest the latter. Once you get through the pass it is pretty flat. Never been to Abreu but it was one of the treks we looked at and I am familiar with the terrain.
     
  • Abreau to Rayado is flat. Easy hike. Rayado is fun. Be sure to try the blacksmithing if you can.
     
  • Cool list of Philmont sites on google maps here.

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#57 jmartine

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 02:16 PM

 

It this it? If so, a few suggestions:

 

 

Yes, that's it.  Thanks for the suggestions! I'll share them with our crew.


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