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Philmont question - Arrival target time each day?


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#41 RememberSchiff

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 09:11 AM

Back in the day, four of us scouts asked and received permission from our one adult advisor to ascend Baldy on an afternoon hike. There was no sign-in log. Our plan was to reach treeline by nightfall and see the sunrise from the peak. We got about 2/3's the way up before pitching tents for the night.  Since a peak ascent in time for sunrise now seemed unlikely to us, we waited on the trail the next morning for the rest of our patrol (6 scouts and advisor) and summited as a whole patrol by early afternoon. Our advisor had this look on his face - "this is how I thought this would play out".

 

Upon returning down, there was a thunder shower with ball lightning hitting a peak south of Baldie.

 

Great experience.


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#42 Sentinel947

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 10:14 AM

Back in the day, four of us scouts asked and received permission from our one adult advisor to ascend Baldy on an afternoon hike. There was no sign-in log. Our plan was to reach treeline by nightfall and see the sunrise from the peak. We got about 2/3's the way up before pitching tents for the night.  Since a peak ascent in time for sunrise now seemed unlikely to us, we waited on the trail the next morning for the rest of our patrol (6 scouts and advisor) and summited as a whole patrol by early afternoon. Our advisor had this look on his face - "this is how I thought this would play out".
 
Upon returning down, there was a thunder shower with ball lightning hitting a peak south of Baldie.
 
Great experience.


Sounds awesome! But we all know how things have changed in the name of managing risk. Casuality of lots of inexperienced hikers and sue happy folks.
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#43 Ankylus

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 01:49 PM

@RememberSchiff,

There is only one at Philmont I know of. Summiting Baldy has a time you must check in at Baldy Town Camp. Philmonts reason is so that crews have a reasonable time to summit and descend the mountain before frequent afternoon thunderstorms.

 

This was not true in 2010. We started out from Miranda on our layover day, climbed Baldie without checking in with anybody, and then descended down the other side of Baldie to Baldie Town. We even took a side trip to French Henry before going to Baldie Town. Maybe they changed the policy in the last 7 years. Perhaps I will find out in July, although we don't get to hit Baldie.


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#44 jmartine

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 04:18 PM

Joe these are almost the same selections we made. I don't have time right now to take a look and give you ALL the detail we looked at, but here are my off hand recollections:

 

 

Wow, great advice! Thanks so much Col. Flagg! We're very anxious to find out which itinerary we get.

 

-Joe


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#45 jmartine

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 04:19 PM

Does anyone know when we can REALISTICALLY expect to find out our assigned trek?

 

Our assigned date to submit preferences was on April 4th, and I submitted our choices right when the button became active. I had been expecting that we'd get an almost instant confirmation of our assigned trek, since I thought it was supposed to be first-come-first-served based on when you submit your choices. Instead, I got back a response saying that we'd find out what trek we get by June 1st. I don't see any reason why it should take anywhere near that long. It's been 2 weeks now, and nothing.

 

Honestly, I don't see why the web server can't just make the assignments instantly if it's first-come-first-served.

 

-Joe


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#46 Col. Flagg

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 05:21 PM

Does anyone know when we can REALISTICALLY expect to find out our assigned trek?

 

Our assigned date to submit preferences was on April 4th, and I submitted our choices right when the button became active. I had been expecting that we'd get an almost instant confirmation of our assigned trek, since I thought it was supposed to be first-come-first-served based on when you submit your choices. Instead, I got back a response saying that we'd find out what trek we get by June 1st. I don't see any reason why it should take anywhere near that long. It's been 2 weeks now, and nothing.

 

Honestly, I don't see why the web server can't just make the assignments instantly if it's first-come-first-served.

 

-Joe

 

Fairly fast BUT it depends on your dates. We were are the end of the summer, so we were one of the last to find out. Obivously, they assign June then July then August. We found out in mid-May for August. If you have a sister crew or other "odd" logistics (i.e., allergies, special needs, etc.) it will take a bit longer.

 

They need to make sure they don't have too many crews going over the same trails too much. They need to manage the "pass throughs" at various staff camps. They have to manage logistics at commissary locations, etc. They have a template that they use that allows them to know capacity over trails, camp sites and staff locations. They have to marry all of that with the requests.

 

Assuming you have an early date and less-popular trek, you might hear very fast. Otherwise, expect to wait. You will certainly know 6 weeks or more before you go...unless you are in June.


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#47 Sentinel947

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 06:24 PM

This was not true in 2010. We started out from Miranda on our layover day, climbed Baldie without checking in with anybody, and then descended down the other side of Baldie to Baldie Town. We even took a side trip to French Henry before going to Baldie Town. Maybe they changed the policy in the last 7 years. Perhaps I will find out in July, although we don't get to hit Baldie.


I went in 2011 and 2015. Both times we did Baldy. Both times the logistics team at Philmont HQ told us we had to check in at Baldy town before going up the mountain.
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#48 Back Pack

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 06:54 PM

I went in 2011 and 2015. Both times we did Baldy. Both times the logistics team at Philmont HQ told us we had to check in at Baldy town before going up the mountain.


Went in 2010 and had to do the same thing. Some crews ignored or didn't hear the instructions and summited anyway. One crew that did that was the same crew that had a bear attack their scout in the tent. Eating food in tent.
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#49 Petey091

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 07:16 PM

On our shakedown trips we get up at 6am and try to be on the trail by 7am at the latest. We usually stop after a while to eat a cold breakfast. We plan on traveling at a two mile an hour pace and add another hour for every thousand feet of elevation change.
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#50 Ankylus

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 01:44 PM

Does anyone know when we can REALISTICALLY expect to find out our assigned trek?

 

Our assigned date to submit preferences was on April 4th, and I submitted our choices right when the button became active. I had been expecting that we'd get an almost instant confirmation of our assigned trek, since I thought it was supposed to be first-come-first-served based on when you submit your choices. Instead, I got back a response saying that we'd find out what trek we get by June 1st. I don't see any reason why it should take anywhere near that long. It's been 2 weeks now, and nothing.

 

Honestly, I don't see why the web server can't just make the assignments instantly if it's first-come-first-served.

 

-Joe

 

We have had our trek assignment for a couple of weeks. But we are on a 2-week trek...might be different.


Edited by Ankylus, 19 April 2017 - 01:44 PM.

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#51 Ankylus

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 01:46 PM

Went in 2010 and had to do the same thing. Some crews ignored or didn't hear the instructions and summited anyway. One crew that did that was the same crew that had a bear attack their scout in the tent. Eating food in tent.

 

Maybe our adult leader just ignored it then.


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#52 jmartine

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 06:14 PM

Fairly fast BUT it depends on your dates. We were are the end of the summer, so we were one of the last to find out. Obivously, they assign June then July then August. We found out in mid-May for August. If you have a sister crew or other "odd" logistics (i.e., allergies, special needs, etc.) it will take a bit longer.

 

They need to make sure they don't have too many crews going over the same trails too much. They need to manage the "pass throughs" at various staff camps. They have to manage logistics at commissary locations, etc. They have a template that they use that allows them to know capacity over trails, camp sites and staff locations. They have to marry all of that with the requests.

 

Assuming you have an early date and less-popular trek, you might hear very fast. Otherwise, expect to wait. You will certainly know 6 weeks or more before you go...unless you are in June.

 

Thanks. Our trek is the last week of June. Hopefully we'll hear soon.


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#53 my_three_sons

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 08:37 AM

Sorry I haven't been on the forum for a week so this might post might be a little long.

 

Last year we went on a 12 day trek at the end of July and put our itinerary choices in on April 19th then got our itinerary on the 20th. I don't know if the 7 day treks are different but give them a call and see when they will be drawn.

 

There was a question about hiking real early. We were told we had to wait to for sunrise to start hiking because of bears. That being said the staff at Miranda told us that they weren't up early in the morning to check if anyone left before sunrise.

 

Checking in with Baldy Town is mainly for them to give you a weather report. The day before we climbed Baldy some of the staff at Miranda had to go up Baldy to help an adult advisor who got caught in a rain storm. Once he got wet and cold he stopped for a while to warm up and he pretty much went down hill from there.

 

My suggestion to the crew advisor would be to plan on being on the trail at sunrise. If you get into staff camp late you can always do a program in the next morning but that puts you behind the next day.  Its nicer to hike during the morning that later in the day when either it going to start to get really hot or be raining. How early you need to get up to be on the trail at sunrise is up to your crew. When we started out the first day it was taking up close to an hour but toward the end it was under 30 minutes.  I would spend some time during our shakedowns setting up and tearing down camp over and over.

 

In the end give your suggestion to the crew leader and let the scouts lead. They will make mistakes but there are consequences so they will adapt.  In the beginning our crew leader would always allow one member of our crew to talk him into taking 20 minutes breaks after a few days of finishing out hikes in the rain he learned that sometimes a leader has to be the bad guy and say 'no'.

 

Post your itinerary number once you get it and I might have more input specifically for your trek.


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