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Could a 9-year-old join Scouts?


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#1 CherokeeScouter

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 07:58 AM

I think he can if he has completed fifth grade. Read the wording carefully from Scouting.org and take note of the "or."

 

Meet the age requirements. Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old.


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#2 CherokeeScouter

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 07:59 AM

We have a child who completed fifth grade while he was 9. He was home-schooled, but he passed the state of Florida home-school testing exams and has the paperwork. 


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#3 Chisos

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 08:05 AM

I don't think so.

It's either:

A.  11 years old; or

B.  10 years old and (completed 5th grade or earned AOL).

 

If you want to parse it, there's no comma after "completed 5th grade".  There's two clauses here, not three.

 

Or, just have his parents fill out the application indicating his birthday and desire to join Boy Scouts.  See what the council says about it.


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#4 T2Eagle

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 08:24 AM

Chisos is correct; there are two clauses, not three.  The minimum age is 10, and then in addition the boy must have completed fifth grade or earned AOL.

 

Commas, or the lack thereof, matter.  


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#5 CherokeeScouter

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 08:31 AM

No.  I think "or" means 'or'

 

I think your B is wrong. 

 

A.. 11 years old; or

B. Completed 5th grade; or 

C. Is 10 and has completed AOL.  


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#6 CherokeeScouter

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 08:40 AM

OK, OK. I get it now. I see what you are saying. 


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#7 krikkitbot

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 08:42 AM

I read it as 10 and completed AOL or 5th grade. Like Chisos said, fil out the app and let the council decide. However, I think the question becomes SHOULD.

 

Should a 9 year old join Boy Scouts? From my experience even most 10 year olds are not quite ready for Boy Scouts. They end up needing more handholding than there should be. So I would say that even though you could get by on a technicality, you wouldn't be doing the kid any favors. 


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#8 fred johnson

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 08:52 AM

BSA needs to clean up that wording.  I've seen this discussed repeatedly online and in-person.  Commas are lost when the sentence is read.  Writing classes today even advise just less punctuation if you don't know how to use properly.  

 

It needs to be re-written when a sentence is confusing to the average reader.  The joining requirements are confusing to the average reader. 


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#9 Stosh

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 09:06 AM

Boolean Logic = 5th grade or AOL is first then the age is added in.

 

So the three choices are

 

1) 11 years old

2) 10 years old and 5th grade

3) 10 years old and AOL

 

Sorry, but I think Doogie Howser his going to have to wait.


Edited by Stosh, 05 April 2017 - 09:08 AM.

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#10 NJCubScouter

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 09:06 AM

Interestingly, the youth application (http://www.scouting....df/524-406A.pdf) states the joining requirements a little differently:
 

Your son can be a Scout if he has completed the fifth grade and is at least 10 years old or is age 11 or has earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but has not reached age 18.


Stated that way, it is clear that a youth must have completed fifth grade AND be 10 years old to meet the eligibility requirement under that option.

I agree it should be clarified. It should be stated exactly the same way in every official publication and web site, and it should use bullet points (or numbers as Stosh has in his post) to make clearer that there are three options, all of which have a specific age (either 10 or 11.)

Edited by NJCubScouter, 05 April 2017 - 09:11 AM.

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#11 CherokeeScouter

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 09:08 AM

Not a fan of 9 - year old Scouts, btw. 


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#12 TAHAWK

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 09:13 AM

His age would not stop reading the BSHB and learning/doing the things in it with some friends.


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#13 qwazse

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 09:28 AM

Not a fan of 9 - year old Scouts, btw. 

Agreed. He should work on AoL in his Webelos den.

Help get everyone up to speed while he enjoys 6th grade.


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#14 Stosh

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 09:28 AM

His age would not stop reading the BSHB and learning/doing the things in it with some friends.

 

As a homeschooled boy, I am sure he can handle getting ahead of the game this way.  There's nothing wrong with mastering the S->FC skills and simply coming in and demonstrating it to the SM when he comes on-site.  I would love to have boys do their homework prior to the lesson. 


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#15 Col. Flagg

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 09:50 AM

BSA needs to clean up that wording.  

 

This from the organization who couldn't state yes or no if tour plans were going away? @Fred johnon, you will turn blue if you hold your breath waiting for that to happen. ;)


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#16 NJCubScouter

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 10:01 AM

It's not just a matter of cleaning up wording, it's a matter of using the same wording everywhere, which they apparently don't do now.
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#17 Eagledad

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 10:37 AM

The success of a boy fitting in a troop is reliant on maturity, not age. I agree, typically 9 year olds don't have the maturity for the troop program. And when a family tried to push their son a head of the standard, usually the parents were pushing the effort, not the son. And usually their reasoning was to get a jump on advancement  (eagle).

 

Barry


Edited by Eagledad, 05 April 2017 - 11:00 AM.

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"Experience is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first, then the lesson."


#18 TAHAWK

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 10:59 AM

It's not just a matter of cleaning up wording, it's a matter of using the same wording everywhere, which they apparently don't do now.

From the results, no one at Corporate seems to have the responsibility of even trying to insure consistency.

 

_____________________________________________________

Not a conspiracy.  Just many not very good at it.


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#19 CalicoPenn

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 12:13 PM

Separate out the clauses:

 

 

(Meet the age requirements.)    (Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award)    and (is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old.)

 

To be a Boy Scout you must:

 

Clause 1:

Meet the Age Requirements

 

Clause 2:

Be a boy who is 11 years old

(Be a boy) who has completed 5th grade

(Be a boy) who earned the Arrow of Light

 

Clause 3:

Is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old. 

 

No, a 9 year old bot, even if he completes 5th grade, cannot be a Boy Scout because he does not meet the age requirements.


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#20 Stosh

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 12:22 PM

The success of a boy fitting in a troop is reliant on maturity, not age. I agree, typically 9 year olds don't have the maturity for the troop program. And when a family tried to push their son a head of the standard, usually the parents were pushing the effort, not the son. And usually their reasoning was to get a jump on advancement  (eagle).

 

Barry

 

While this is true for most boys, the OP did mention the son was homeschooled.  Often these children are a bit behind in socialization, but they are definitely ahead of the Bell curve in terms of maturity and education.  I have found that a lot of the homeschooled parents aren't pushing their children as much as they are providing them a variety of different opportunities.  I think they may make up an exception to the helicopter parents that push.


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