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#61 MattR

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 02:19 PM

Ah, but Col Flagg, the neanderthals are using more patrol teamwork and leadership skills than the nerds. :)

 

Let's face it, troopmaster's a tool. Tools can be abused. Tools can also be useful.

 

We find it very useful for syncing with the council advancement records and making lists of awards to buy. We used to just have scouts denied ranks because something got lost in the human process. It also feeds our website with roster and email info. Maybe that could be replaced but someone would still need to enter that info somewhere.

 

I agree that replacing the scouts handbooks is a bad idea. But we don't use it for that. The book is the defining document and the scouts are responsible for updating troopmaster. We have a computer at each meeting so scouts can do that. The scouts use the computer as their backup for when they wash their handbook. We don't credit PORs through troopmaster. We do credit campouts, though. I like that feature for a completely different reason. When a scout is just about to age out I like to talk to them about what they enjoyed. Having that list of campouts and high adventure trips helps bring up good memories.

 

For some stupid reason we keep track of partial MBs and that is the biggest waste. If we could reliably get blue cards from summer camp or the MB fair then we'd just give the scouts the card and say don't lose it. But we get reports and have to do something with them. Filling out a blue card is harder than the computer.

 

All that said, I can see how keeping it manual (other than the council/advancement uploads) is a good way to create more responsibility for scouts. That's worth something.


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#62 fred johnson

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 02:32 PM

I'll grant you, before these changes TM didn't save much time. Now? Holy cow!!!

 

Maybe I'll have to revisit it.  I just don't want to sit at another committee meeting where we review painful details of scout advancement.  I want to spend little time reconciling handbook to online records.  We find going from the box to BSA online is quick and easy and all we need.  .... I just don't want to grow the beurocracy.  


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#63 Col. Flagg

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 02:42 PM

All that said, I can see how keeping it manual (other than the council/advancement uploads) is a good way to create more responsibility for scouts. That's worth something.

 

I don't see this concept as exclusive to the paper method. You can certainly have the Scout retain responsibility for records management but still use software.

 

And I agree, some the feature and things to track can be horrendous; blue card partials in particular. We don't use TM for that either. Too much work. We don't track training in there either. Despite the slowness and antiquated system BSA has, it still tracks what we need. Don't use ledger or fund raising either, though I could see how the latter would be useful.

 

What I like best is MBC management. If I can get an extract (csv file) from council, I load it in TM and print out a list for Scouts to use. That's a huge time saver too.


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#64 NJCubScouter

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 03:00 PM

Mea Culpa. 

 

Let it be known from this time forward the term Paper or Parlour Eagle will no longer be used to distinguish certain Eagles.  Instead I will be using the terms Eagle and Real Eagle.

 

Well, as long as you have the satisfaction of knowing that you are insulting certain kids, even if they don't know it, I guess that's the important thing.


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#65 Stosh

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 03:17 PM

What's wrong with Eagle and Real Eagles?  Kinda like the A Honor Roll and the B Honor Roll.  In some schools all they have is Honor Rolls.  Everyone knows the difference and some even go so far as to say it out loud.  I'm sure the A Students use it to bully and belittle the B Students on a regular basis.  It's how life works in the real world.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#66 fred johnson

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 11:38 AM

What's wrong with Eagle and Real Eagles?  Kinda like the A Honor Roll and the B Honor Roll.  In some schools all they have is Honor Rolls.  Everyone knows the difference and some even go so far as to say it out loud.  I'm sure the A Students use it to bully and belittle the B Students on a regular basis.  It's how life works in the real world.

 

Well Stosh....  I know you are a scouter, but real scouters just don't do that.   ;)  


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#67 TAHAWK

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 08:43 PM

Requirement for Second Class per BSHB: "12. Successfully complete your board of review for the Second Class rank"

 

Guide to Advancement: 

"If the members agree a Scout is ready to advance, he is called in and congratulated. The board of review date— not that of a subsequent court of honor—becomes the rank’s effective date."

 

So there is no issue as to a complete BOR being required to have completed Second Class before 01/01/2017.  The only issue raised in this thread is whether adults follow the rules or substitute their own rules.


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