Jump to content



Photo
- - - - -

Canada Girl Guides restricting scout unit travel to USA


  • Please log in to reply
156 replies to this topic

#21 NJCubScouter

NJCubScouter

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 5818 posts

Posted 14 March 2017 - 09:38 PM

It's unfortunate that it has come to this, but getting turned back is not that big of a deal.


It seems to me that when you are in charge of an international trip, you get to decide how "big of a deal" it would be if someone gets turned back. In this case the persons in charge are the Girl Guides of Canada, not any of us.

If the point here is that the Girl Guides have decided that if some of their members are unwelcome in the U.S., then none of them will travel here under their group's auspices, it's their decision to make. They are answerable to their own members as to whether that is a good decision.
  • 0

#22 Back Pack

Back Pack

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 417 posts

Posted 14 March 2017 - 09:38 PM

I hear the Girl Guides are going to Pakistan. They stand a much better chance of freedom and being treated equally there.

South Park had it right: Blame Canada.

Good grief.

Edited by Back Pack, 14 March 2017 - 09:38 PM.

  • -1

#23 ianwilkins

ianwilkins

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 196 posts

Posted 15 March 2017 - 04:39 AM

 Gee, now we have a travel warning to America?  Careful, when one gets to the border one may get turned away.  On the other hand, Americans traveling to foreign countries are allowed in, but have major travel restrictions such as getting shot at or robbed.   It's unfortunate that it has come to this, but getting turned back is not that big of a deal.  Be prepared, are all the travel visas approved?  Everyone has their passport?  All medical issues cleared up?  Any problems with non-Canadian travelers with the group?  If not, check with customs before getting in the car....or even before planning an American visit. 

 

 

British passport holder with valid visa refused entry to the USA

 

https://www.tes.com/...-us-school-trip

 

I mean, he is Welsh, but no need to hold that against him.

 

Mind you, that story is now a month old, and that seems an awful long time in politics currently.

 

It's really the last thing you want on an international trip, one of the leaders getting turned back. One of the kids getting turned back isn't great either. You just want everything to run smooth as silk.


  • 1

#24 Back Pack

Back Pack

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 417 posts

Posted 15 March 2017 - 06:44 AM

Why would someone get on a plane knowing they fell in to one of the categories a sovereign nation put on a travel ban?

If England were to say blond haired Swedes were not allowed to travel to London, regardless of the valid Visa I had I wouldn't be getting on a plane for Heathrow. That's just moronic.

Edited by Back Pack, 15 March 2017 - 06:45 AM.

  • 0

#25 Stosh

Stosh

    BSA Heretic

  • Members
  • 11829 posts

Posted 15 March 2017 - 07:07 AM

I'm a bit confused, but I did read the article 3 times to make sure.  Nowhere in the article does it say this gentleman is a British citizen.  If I were in Norway teaching "English as a Second Language" I would be a Norwegian school teacher, but a US citizen.

 

He had a "valid" visa is all it says, and the protectorate ban cancelled those visas so it was no longer valid.

 

I can surmise from the op-ed piece that this gentleman was a passport carrying citizen from one of the 7 nations mentioned in the ban, working in Great Britain that got caught up in the political mess caused by the terrorist movement.  We need to view these issues from all sides using all the information rather than the information cherry picked to promote a political agenda.

 

I don't see myself as a bigot against anyone, BUT on a dark street, a small group of "people" are coming down the street all wearing hoodies.  I can't tell if they are male or female, white or black, young or old, Muslim or Christian,   And I guess it wouldn't make much difference if they were wearing ski masks, hoodies, or scarves, their identity is hidden.  Well, like 99% of the people in this country, at least, when someone wishes to hide their identity they are most likely involved in an agenda.  Everyone has a fear of the unknown, one cannot be blamed for that, it's the hallmark of self-preservation.

 

Young kids wear hoodies..... I have a hoodie too.  Does that make me up to something nefarious?  One doesn't know and that invokes fear and a fearful reaction.  It's only natural.  Unless it's necessary,

 

It would be nice to know the whole story of this school teacher, but for some reason, all the facts are not exposed in the article which would indicates something is being purposefully left out or hidden from the reader.  Are we not back full circle to fear of the unknown?


  • 0

Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#26 ianwilkins

ianwilkins

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 196 posts

Posted 15 March 2017 - 07:30 AM

Why would someone get on a plane knowing they fell in to one of the categories a sovereign nation put on a travel ban?

If England were to say blond haired Swedes were not allowed to travel to London, regardless of the valid Visa I had I wouldn't be getting on a plane for Heathrow. That's just moronic.

 

They didn't. They were a British citizen. They had no reason to suspect they were in one of the categories in the travel ban, as I understand it. Okay, read on...

 

I'm a bit confused, but I did read the article 3 times to make sure.  Nowhere in the article does it say this gentleman is a British citizen.  If I were in Norway teaching "English as a Second Language" I would be a Norwegian school teacher, but a US citizen.

 

He had a "valid" visa is all it says, and the protectorate ban cancelled those visas so it was no longer valid.

 

I can surmise from the op-ed piece that this gentleman was a passport carrying citizen from one of the 7 nations mentioned in the ban, working in Great Britain that got caught up in the political mess caused by the terrorist movement.  We need to view these issues from all sides using all the information rather than the information cherry picked to promote a political agenda.

 

 

If it says he's British, I'd have assumed he has a British passport, if he was an Iraqi, that's moved to Wales to teach, I'd have expected it to say he was an Iraqi citizen.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...-wales-39032062

 

"The council confirmed Mr Miah has a British passport and does not have dual nationality. His family's ethnic background is Bangladeshi."

 

I can't see any hiding of information or identity.

 

Of course, the left leaning press may well have made hay on this one, as it suits their agenda, but that doesn't take away that this happened.

 

Yes, I agree, it would always be nice to know a bit more info on the story.


  • 0

#27 perdidochas

perdidochas

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2163 posts

Posted 15 March 2017 - 08:19 AM

How is this nonsensical? I think it's a reasonable precaution. I'm a natural born US citizen, but I wouldn't take a scout unit into Canada in the current environment as I'm not sure I would be able to get them all back into the US without a problem. Especially if they are or look Muslim.

 

If they have valid U.S. passports or foreign passports with green cards, you shouldn't have any problem.


  • 0

#28 Back Pack

Back Pack

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 417 posts

Posted 15 March 2017 - 08:23 AM

Maybe he's on a no fly list. Maybe the database mixed his name with another. Maybe his name is the same as someone on the no fly list. Maybe a passenger complained about him. Maybe it's simply a mistake. Maybe the US intel knows more about him than MI-6. Who knows.

I was detained at Gatwick in the 1990s traveling through England to Sweden. No reason given. Held for 2 hours and then let go with a "you can leave now". No apology. No call to the press. I accepted people doing their jobs and moved on.

Edited by Back Pack, 15 March 2017 - 08:23 AM.

  • 1

#29 Col. Flagg

Col. Flagg

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 886 posts

Posted 15 March 2017 - 09:48 AM

Even I have been detained coming back from international travel. US Citizen and so white a snow man has a better chance of tanning than I do.

 

Customs and Border Patrol has detained me on several occasions over the last 20 years. I have been asked to step out of line and go through enhanced security in Germany, UK, France, the Middle East, Asia, etc. Heck, when I was 8 I was strip searched leaving the Munich airport after the '72 Olympics. No parents allowed in. What's an 8 year old going to smuggle out of Germany? Kinder Ueberraschungs? I've had my passport checked sitting in a pub in Dublin. I have been asked to produce "papers" in Paris. I had an AK-47 shoved in my face on a train going from Vienna to Budapest in 1992 because I was speaking German but had a US passport and they (border security) wanted to know why. I have been spit on by Mexican border guards crossing from Mexico to the US.

 

Point is, none of this has deterred me from travelling to any of these locations again. From time to time countries secure themselves. It used to be a fact of international travel. Anyone who traveled in the 60s and 70s, even 80s, can remember that international travel was always somewhat of a risk.


Edited by Col. Flagg, 15 March 2017 - 09:49 AM.

  • 0

#30 David CO

David CO

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 813 posts

Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:25 AM

It's the same with Canada.  I was detained and questioned once when I was crossing over with a group of boys to see the Canadian falls. 

 

It turns out that one of the boys parents had a restraining order out on someone, and I fit the description. They wanted to make sure that the boy wasn't being abducted.

 

The parent was very embarrassed.  Had no idea that it could make it difficult for us to take her son into Canada.

 

We are all assuming that this British teacher was stopped because he is a Muslim, but we don't actually know that.  There are many reasons a person can be detained or turned back at the border.


Edited by David CO, 15 March 2017 - 10:29 AM.

  • 0

#31 Stosh

Stosh

    BSA Heretic

  • Members
  • 11829 posts

Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:51 AM

They didn't. They were a British citizen. They had no reason to suspect they were in one of the categories in the travel ban, as I understand it. Okay, read on...

 

 

If it says he's British, I'd have assumed he has a British passport, if he was an Iraqi, that's moved to Wales to teach, I'd have expected it to say he was an Iraqi citizen.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...-wales-39032062

 

"The council confirmed Mr Miah has a British passport and does not have dual nationality. His family's ethnic background is Bangladeshi."

 

I can't see any hiding of information or identity.

 

Of course, the left leaning press may well have made hay on this one, as it suits their agenda, but that doesn't take away that this happened.

 

Yes, I agree, it would always be nice to know a bit more info on the story.

 

Yep, this appears to be totally inappropriate if all the information is correct.  I can't apologize on behalf of the American people, but someone should!


  • 0

Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#32 Back Pack

Back Pack

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 417 posts

Posted 15 March 2017 - 12:16 PM

Yep, this appears to be totally inappropriate if all the information is correct.  I can't apologize on behalf of the American people, but someone should!


Why? Do we have insight in to what the NSA or CIA or CBP might have? We have one side of the story.
  • 0

#33 Deaf Scouter

Deaf Scouter

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 264 posts

Posted 15 March 2017 - 12:25 PM

My first awareness came from a Facebook posting of this article:
http://www.cbc.ca/ne...-jobs-1.4022969

 

Seems this is a ripple effect, along with a bit of precautionary measure thrown in so youth are not getting stuck at the border.  With youth, things like this can really play havoc on their emotions from excitement to disappointment due to cancellation on the spot without really understanding the full scope, especially after months of planning and looking forward to their trip.


Edited by Deaf Scouter, 15 March 2017 - 12:26 PM.

  • 0

#34 Stosh

Stosh

    BSA Heretic

  • Members
  • 11829 posts

Posted 15 March 2017 - 12:39 PM

Why? Do we have insight in to what the NSA or CIA or CBP might have? We have one side of the story.

 

Totally agree!  We have US citizens committing acts of terrorism.  Until this issue is resolved, I think everyone is trying to err on the side of caution.  It isn't a perfect system and maybe a little patience and understanding might be useful.  But until then everyone has the jitters..... which is exactly what the terrorists want!


  • 0

Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#35 Back Pack

Back Pack

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 417 posts

Posted 15 March 2017 - 12:48 PM

My first awareness came from a Facebook posting of this article:http://www.cbc.ca/ne...-jobs-1.4022969
 
Seems this is a ripple effect, along with a bit of precautionary measure thrown in so youth are not getting stuck at the border.  With youth, things like this can really play havoc on their emotions from excitement to disappointment due to cancellation on the spot without really understanding the full scope, especially after months of planning and looking forward to their trip.


Ever entered Canada for business? You get grilled about the nature of your meetings and what type of advice you're giving. Your company must be very specific about its role or you run in to the same issues.

It goes both ways folks. If you don't follow the rules when crossing borders you risk being detained or sent back. It's not like America is the only country doing this.
  • 1

#36 RememberSchiff

RememberSchiff

    Your Friendly Neighborhood ModeratorMan

  • Moderators
  • 2511 posts

Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:11 PM

http://ottawa.ctvnew...e-u-s-1.3324885

 

“The U.S. travel industry already has a name for this. It's called the “Trump Slump,” says David Macdonald. Macdonald is a senior economist with the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, located in Ottawa.  He says the Girl Guides of Canada is just the latest group to postpone travel to the U.S. and believes the numbers are telling with respect to the economic impact of those decisions.

 

“It does appear that travel into the United States is down about 7%,” he says, “and searches for flights into the U.S. is down 17%.  So more of that tourist money that American communities might get, might well be spent in Canada.”

About 800 Canadian Girl Guides travel into the U.S. each year.  The Guides say their decision to postpone that travel is intended to ensure safety and equality for all the girls.

 

“It's not a political statement,” says Sarah Kiriliuk with Girl Guides of Canada, “it's a reaction to the realities of what's happening in the world right now.”

 

Scouts Canada (their BSA) has no plans to postpone trips to the U.S.  In a statement, John Petitti with Scouts Canada said, “As with any Scouting activity involving travel,  we encourage our members to plan their trips carefully, to have all required paperwork in order and to always have alternate plans in case of unexpected developments.” 

 

Both the Ottawa Carleton District School Board and the Ottawa Catholic School Board say no trips have been cancelled so far but added that they will continue to monitor the situation, as will many of the shoppers we spoke with today.


  • 0

#37 Back Pack

Back Pack

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 417 posts

Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:21 PM

Odd because the industry itself reports otherwise...

https://www.ustravel...ruary_2017.html
  • 0

#38 CalicoPenn

CalicoPenn

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3077 posts

Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:31 PM

Redacted


Edited by CalicoPenn, 15 March 2017 - 01:34 PM.

  • 0

#39 Col. Flagg

Col. Flagg

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 886 posts

Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:37 PM

Redacted

 

Then maybe the journalists should do their job and give full information? 

 

Regardless of that fact, any country can deny entry to anyone they like. Just because he's Muslim does not mean that's why he was turned back. We don't know why, so we could easily speculate it was because he was male, had black hair, had facial hair or maybe because he was British. We just don't know, so why speculate?


  • 1

#40 Stosh

Stosh

    BSA Heretic

  • Members
  • 11829 posts

Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:38 PM

I would think it up to the journalist/editorialist to do the research.  One of the reasons the media is taking a beating today is the fact that they don't.  I would love to be able to trust the media, but as one can see from the original post, no reference is explicitly stated this gentleman is a UK citizen.  A red flag goes up and I commented as such.  It is not my job to vet these people, there are those that are supposed to be doing it.  Like any other average citizen, we must rely on our people in authority doing their jobs correctly and that includes media with slated agendas.  When they don't the only ones that suffer are those reading the trade rags posting as legitimate journalists.  I seriously believe in our country, those people no longer exist.  Read everything carefully and be aware that there is always major spin involved.


  • 0

Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users


IPB Skin By Virteq