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Canada Girl Guides restricting scout unit travel to USA


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#1 RememberSchiff

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 11:22 AM

http://www.nbcnews.c...-trip-u-n733161

 

The organization, which is Canada's equivalent of the Girl Scouts, announced Monday that they are canceling all trips to the United States until further notice. The group cited uncertainty about the ability of all of its members to enter the country.

...

"Girl Guides is a very inclusive and diverse organization," spokeswoman Sarah Kiriliuk told the CBC. "It is part of our mandate and it is very important to the fabric of our organization to be inclusive and diverse. And we wanted to make sure we could extend that to all aspects of our organization — which includes girls that are traveling."

 

She added: "In this case, girls that were traveling across the border would not have that opportunity, it would not have been an inclusive and diverse opportunity for them."

 

Kiriliuk also said that the Girl Guides' national office was unaware of any issues occurring with members traveling to the U.S. so far, but that the measure was designed to ensure "no girl gets left behind."

 

 

Good grief.

 


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#2 Col. Flagg

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 11:31 AM

Well, if they visit some college campuses, and they are conservatives, they might not be afforded the acceptance of diversity that the law and society requires, so I see their point. ;)


Edited by Col. Flagg, 14 March 2017 - 11:32 AM.

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#3 RememberSchiff

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 11:41 AM

My concern is that nonsensical decisions like this could spread and impact the World Jamboree at Summit. Maybe Tillerson's State Dept can send a scout-friendly message to our nervous northern scouters.

 

Another $0.02,


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#4 Col. Flagg

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 11:54 AM

My concern is that nonsensical decisions like this could spread and impact the World Jamboree at Summit. Maybe Tillerson's State Dept can send a scout-friendly message to our nervous northern scouters.

 

Another $0.02,

 

Anyone who has issues with coming to the US should try to go visit countries in Asia, Africa, Southeast Asia, a few South American countries or just take a tour around Mexico. They have more of a chance of getting picked up THERE than anything that would happen to them here.

 

This is a red herring made worse by people who are trying to create something out of nothing.

 

How worried are they about how their girls would be treated in the Middle East? Seriously?


Edited by Col. Flagg, 14 March 2017 - 11:58 AM.

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#5 qwazse

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 12:47 PM

This seems like grandstanding ... using the girls as pawns.

 

It could also be that the Guides are making inroads into Canada's immigrant communities, and they want that to be a priority. Troops that plan trips where the immigrant girls can't attend would undermine that priority.

 

Needless to say, troops with no immigrants who don't like being pushed around by their national organization, or with immigrant families who would rather the other girls have the opportunity even if their daughters might not be able to attend,won't give two hoots about national priorities.


Edited by qwazse, 14 March 2017 - 12:48 PM.

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#6 Rick_in_CA

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 12:54 PM

My concern is that nonsensical decisions like this could spread and impact the World Jamboree at Summit. Maybe Tillerson's State Dept can send a scout-friendly message to our nervous northern scouters.

 

Another $0.02,

How is this nonsensical? I think it's a reasonable precaution. I'm a natural born US citizen, but I wouldn't take a scout unit into Canada in the current environment as I'm not sure I would be able to get them all back into the US without a problem. Especially if they are or look Muslim.


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#7 RememberSchiff

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 01:12 PM

How is this nonsensical? I think it's a reasonable precaution. I'm a natural born US citizen, but I wouldn't take a scout unit into Canada in the current environment as I'm not sure I would be able to get them all back into the US without a problem. Especially if they are or look Muslim.

 

If a member of my unit is denied access to a destination, the trip does not automatically grind to a halt.  Yes sometimes scouts/scouters get sent home for a variety of reasons, right or wrong.

 

Now if the Girl Guides said we refuse to have our (all) members groped by TSA, that would make more sense to me.

 

Another $0.02


Edited by RememberSchiff, 14 March 2017 - 01:15 PM.

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#8 Cambridgeskip

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 01:13 PM

Given the temporary nature of the travel ban I think that the Canadian Guides are indeed jumping the gun.

 

But as per Rick's comments it is something that organisations around the world, whether they be scouts or non scout groups are going to have to consider.

 

My troop are going to Canada this summer. When we planned the trip we have two scouts who are Iranian in the troop. We also seriously considered flying into Buffalo as it is slightly nearer to our destination in Canada than Toronto airport is. Now as it happens neither Iranian signed up and we eventually booked to fly to Toronto anyway as its cheaper. But things could have been different and yours truly would have been left with some very difficult decisions to make as would their families.

 

So it is a long way from being nonsense.

 

You will also find that various countries will be begining their WSJ19 selection process this year, certainly we're expecting it to kick off for youth members in September. Again if the ban hasn't been lifted it is going to put families descended from the countries involved as well as national scout organisations in very difficult positions.

 

I would like to think that WOSM are speaking to the relevant bits of the US government in that respect.


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#9 Col. Flagg

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 01:41 PM

Oddly enough, no one seemed to complain too loudly with the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act which was passed by Congress and not vetoed by the last administration. It treated folks without previously granted waiver the exact same and the current restrictions.


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#10 Stosh

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 02:29 PM

If one were truly concerned about this issue they could simply change their plans and do something else with the girls.  Instead it has turned into some huge political posturing agenda with the girls being used as pawns as has been stated. 

 

Sure inclusiveness and diversity is important, but the Girl Guides do not make any reference to any of the girls being "left behind".  Maybe they would maybe the wouldn't, no need to make a big stink about a what may come about.  One has no case until the crime is committed.  If people were to get locked up for what MIGHT happen, we could all spend a few nights behind bars. 

 

Political grandstanding with no foundation.  Kinda detracts a bit from the credibility of the group.  If one wants to run with the big dogs in the political arena, don't go in as a Chihuahua.


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Stosh

 

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#11 Rick_in_CA

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 05:10 PM

If one were truly concerned about this issue they could simply change their plans and do something else with the girls.  Instead it has turned into some huge political posturing agenda with the girls being used as pawns as has been stated.

Isn't that basically what they are doing? They put out a statement that they are not approving a new travel to the US. i.e. going somewhere else.
 

Sure inclusiveness and diversity is important, but the Girl Guides do not make any reference to any of the girls being "left behind".  Maybe they would maybe the wouldn't, no need to make a big stink about a what may come about.  One has no case until the crime is committed.  If people were to get locked up for what MIGHT happen, we could all spend a few nights behind bars.

They are reacting to things that are happening, not just what might happen. There have been multiple reports of Canadian's suddenly having trouble at the border.
 

Political grandstanding with no foundation.  Kinda detracts a bit from the credibility of the group.  If one wants to run with the big dogs in the political arena, don't go in as a Chihuahua.

How is this grandstanding? They put out a notice to their members, and the media picked up on it. How else would they do something like this? And how is this without foundation?
 
And it's not just the Canadian' Girl Guides. Multiple organizations such as Canadian schools have canceled trips to the US for the same reason.
 
From: http://www.thestar.c...r-concerns.html

Girl Guides is not the first organization to suspend trips to the U.S.

Several schools and school districts across Canada debated going ahead with trips south of the border following the first executive order issued by Trump In January.

A Winnipeg junior high school cancelled a trip by its track team to Minnesota in January because it wasn’t certain all students would be able to cross the border.

The Greater Essex County School Board in southwestern Ontario decided in February to cancel a handful of trips over concerns of safety and equity, while districts in southern Vancouver Island debated whether to ban all U.S. travel or handle each trip on a case-by-case basis.

Looks like real concern, not grandstanding. As for the "so some people a blocked, so what" attitude expressed by some in this forum, the Girl Guides address that.
 
http://www.ctvnews.c...rules-1.3323157

Girl Guides spokeswoman Sarah Kiriliuk said the decision is a preventative measure.

"We just looked at our organization and realized that we do have a lot of girls travelling and this was potentially creating a situation that would either be a risk for the group or would create an uncomfortable situation in the case that somebody did get turned back at the border," she said.

She said policies are already in place that require a group to turn back in the event anyone on a trip is blocked at the border.

Seem a reasonable response to a valid concern to me. At least until more is known.


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#12 RememberSchiff

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 05:33 PM

Shazam, I moved this topic to I&P.


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#13 RememberSchiff

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 05:55 PM

Why not send out a notice to units and let the scouts/parents in that unit decide, rather than telling all units they cannot go to Disneyworld because there may or may not be a problem.

 

I expect on any flight, there will be a problem at the airport. If one or two are delayed (I really mean detained) by TSA, do we all stay behind, scrap the trip, and eat the expenses. No.

 

I would expect a border crossing to be more problematic.

 

Be prepared, not scared.

 

Another $0.02.


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#14 CalicoPenn

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 06:43 PM

Oddly enough, no one seemed to complain too loudly with the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act which was passed by Congress and not vetoed by the last administration. It treated folks without previously granted waiver the exact same and the current restrictions. This was not vetoed or signed by the last administration because it was not passed by Congress. It passed the House and was sent to the Senate where it languished and died. The site you linked to shows what the disposition of the legislation is - and the last thing it shoes is being sent to the Senate on 12/09/15. Had it passed the Senate, it would show that.
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#15 CalicoPenn

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 06:45 PM

I expect on any flight, there will be a problem at the airport. If one or two are delayed (I really mean detained) by TSA, do we all stay behind, scrap the trip, and eat the expenses. No.............CP Response: Actually, yes, yes you do - until the situation with the TSA is resolved, especially if the situation is with a Scout or two that you are traveling with and you are acting in loco parentis.
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#16 Back Pack

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 06:52 PM

Really folks? Just read what the last administration did. No hysteria. No one with a valid visa was denied entry or return.

Good Lord, get real.
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#17 RememberSchiff

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 06:53 PM

I expect on any flight, there will be a problem at the airport. If one or two are delayed (I really mean detained) by TSA, do we all stay behind, scrap the trip, and eat the expenses. No.............

 

CP Response: Actually, yes, yes you do - until the situation with the TSA is resolved, especially if the situation is with a Scout or two that you are traveling with and you are acting in loco parentis.

 

Like I said, be prepared. At least four adults in group, so two adults available to stay back. Hopefully, any problem will appear at first departure point (home airport) where parents are on just other side of the gate.


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#18 Stosh

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 07:14 PM

 Gee, now we have a travel warning to America?  Careful, when one gets to the border one may get turned away.  On the other hand, Americans traveling to foreign countries are allowed in, but have major travel restrictions such as getting shot at or robbed.   It's unfortunate that it has come to this, but getting turned back is not that big of a deal.  Be prepared, are all the travel visas approved?  Everyone has their passport?  All medical issues cleared up?  Any problems with non-Canadian travelers with the group?  If not, check with customs before getting in the car....or even before planning an American visit. 

 

All these things could have, and should have, been taken care of before leaving.  It's called planning and is part of any scout activity.  If one gets to the border and has problems, the leaders have not done their homework and should be pointing fingers at themselves for not being prepared.

 

That is like showing up at the border without appropriate authority to cross and then complaining about being tagged a criminal.


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Stosh

 

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#19 David CO

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 08:30 PM

So If just 1 of the Girl Guides of Canada's 90,000 members isn't allowed access into the USA, than none of them may take the trip. This is an impossible standard to meet.  It always has been.  It always will be.

 

If the Girl Guides were to stick to this policy, then they would never be able to take a trip to the USA ever again.

 

The USA would never guarantee universal access to all Girl Guides of Canada and their leaders.  This would only invite terrorists to  use the organization to gain access to our country.  It would never happen.  Not under this administration, and not under any other administration.  

 

Of course this is just political posturing.  


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#20 MattR

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 08:38 PM

Yes, they are idiots. The reason being that if they want to make a political statement it would be much much louder if they went ahead with the trip and a girl scout got stopped at the border. Just imagine the publicity. Girl scouts as terrorists? What a photo op.

 

"We just wanted to trade unicorn patches with our sister troop in Duluth and this big man with a gun said we couldn't come in and now we have to go home." :)


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