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Youth Protection Training Not Done


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#1 ScoutMom1105

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 10:22 PM

Hello,

This past year, my family moved from an urban area to a rural one. We are not just in a different Pack this year, but also a different Council. My son is a Bear. I have two big concerns about this Pack:

(1) The Pack Leader asked all adults--Den Leaders and Parents--to complete the Youth Protection Training Online. Several of us had technical difficulty, so I suggested that we order the DVD and watch it together. I told the PL to let me know if he needed any help getting this set-up. That was back in September. From discussions I had with other parents, YPT was not done last year. Why isn't Council concerned/saying something?

(2) The Pack Leader drove several scouts to a day camp this winter. Does the "two deep" leadership apply to car rides? Should there have been a second adult in the vehicle? Also, there were more Scouts than seatbelts, so I'm kind of shaking my head at the whole deal.

Thanks!
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#2 Wëlënakwsu

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 12:12 AM

(1)  Council is probably not concerned because BSA does not require parents who are not Leaders to complete YPT.  The BSA Council will confirm YPT of new Leaders and the Leaders registered annually when the Pack re-charters with the BSA. 

Some units ask parents to take YPT to familiarize them with BSA policy and especially when adults who are not BSA registered and are helping out with tasks such as driving to day camp...

 

(2) If I recall correctly... Generally two deep adult leadership does not apply to a car ride. No one on one contact applies. Two deep applies to the trip, ie  day camp. Lack of seatbelts is a no-no...!!  good sense, safe Scouting, State law.... et al. !! 

 

I would speak with the Pack Leader about it before I let anyone in my care get in a car associated with the Pack and ask about the Pack's plan for a Time To Tell meeting... a youth protection video that Scouts should view annually.


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#3 ScoutMom1105

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 05:58 AM

"The BSA Council will confirm YPT of new Leaders and the Leaders registered annually when the Pack re-charters with the BSA."

That's the thing--we have new Den Leaders this year who have stated they have not taken YPT--ever.
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#4 Stosh

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 07:06 AM

"The BSA Council will confirm YPT of new Leaders and the Leaders registered annually when the Pack re-charters with the BSA."

That's the thing--we have new Den Leaders this year who have stated they have not taken YPT--ever.

First of all, welcome to the forum.

 

Here's the #1 concern I have for YPT trained people in the unit.  The title sounds as if it is for the protection of the Youth, but I can assure everyone it is more for the safety of the Adults!  One kid having a bad day says something about "being touched" and one's future of ever working with and around kids is over.   It's not just scouts, but school events, church events, social events, you name it it's gone.

 

Not enough seat belts is another issue.  That's state law and a major breech of safety for all concerned.  If this were my son in the pack, I would insist on always driving my son and his friends, to an event and never let him be in another's car.  If I couldn't go to that activity, neither would my son.

 

These are just a couple of the red flags that may crop up with this unit.  There may be more that one finds along the way.  If this program is important to your son,  I would get involved with the leadership and register.  If the unit isn't going to take responsibility for your child's safety and security, then you may have to.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#5 Back Pack

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 07:21 AM

A few comments:

- ALL registered adults must complete YPT. If not then Council should not register them.
- Below is the link to YPT in the car.
- @Stosh, while I agree YPT is to really protect adults and unit leaders, it should illustrate for those who take it what situations to avoid.
- Lastly, nothing prohibits the unit from prohibiting parent participation unless YPT is completed.

https://blog.scoutin...ing-events/amp/

http://www.scouting....tection/QA.aspx
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#6 Wëlënakwsu

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 08:51 AM

Re: "...Den Leaders this year who have stated they have not taken YPT..."

 

ScoutMom

 

My Council will not register Leaders who have not completed YPT.  Some Councils may register with a grace period of future YPT completion.  Some units may not complete and submit Leader applications to the Council. 

 

I'm guessing your Den Leaders are not registered with the BSA.... so I'll add one more suggestion:  Communicate your concern to the Pack Leader about Den Leaders not registered with YPT.  A lack of protection for all... youth, adult, and chartered organization, including no background checks. For the adults... The BSA General Liability Insurance provides primary coverage for registered Leaders, but for unregistered voluntees its excess over other insurance the volunteer may have.

 

Thank you for your interest in making the Pack's program better.  As with any organization... you work with who and what you got.  but YPT & registration can be achieved with some patience and prodding.


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#7 JosephMD

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 12:20 PM

It sure sounds like the pack needs help. 

 

All of the pack's leaders should be registered and have taken YPT training, if this isn't happening, something isn't being done right somewhere. 

 

The main technical dificultiy we run into with online YPT is getting it credited to the right BSA ID, but if you have a printed (or pdf copy) certificate with your name, that is good enough for me.

 

There is offline YPT but I've never seen it in person.

 

I do wish all parents would take it, and youth too for that matter.  I know my older son has done it as they required it for day camp staff, even youth. 

 

Seatbelts is a no brainer, in a scouting context or not, legal or not, there is just a level of common sense that is required when transporting others.  The pack is going to need more drivers.

 

Two deep leadership and no one on one contact are often confused.  It is fine for a scouter to drive two scouts with no other adults, but can't drive a single scout other than their own son.  

 

This pack could sure use a pack trainer and the district could probably use a hand on the training committee.


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#8 NJCubScouter

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 04:22 PM

That's the thing--we have new Den Leaders this year who have stated they have not taken YPT--ever.


In that case, I wonder whether they are even registered as Den Leaders at all. Our council will not register a new adult leader without a Youth Protection certificate. It is my understanding that is the case nationwide.

(I just noticed Wëlënakwsu said basically the same thing. I should have read the entire thread before posting.)

Edited by NJCubScouter, 11 March 2017 - 04:26 PM.

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#9 NJCubScouter

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 11:09 AM

Here's the #1 concern I have for YPT trained people in the unit.  The title sounds as if it is for the protection of the Youth, but I can assure everyone it is more for the safety of the Adults!  One kid having a bad day says something about "being touched" and one's future of ever working with and around kids is over.   It's not just scouts, but school events, church events, social events, you name it it's gone.

 

The YP policies, guidelines and training are designed for the protection (or more accurately, increasing the level of protection, since nothing works 100% of the time) of both the youth and the adults (and, I would say, of the BSA, the councils, the units and the CO's as well).  I see no point in debating who it is "more" for the protection of.  Statistically, the number of false accusations that are avoided may very well be greater than the number of child-abuse incidents that are prevented, but we will never really know, and anyway, so what?  If ANY child abuse is prevented by the YP system, and I am convinced that some is prevented, then it is worth it.  It's not a competition between one purpose and another. And anyway, the BSA requires this training and imposes these policies, so if you have den leaders or whoever who don't have it and don't know it, you have a problem regardless of what the system does "more" of.


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#10 Stosh

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 11:35 AM

BSA is protected because they offer YPT.

Youth are protected because they are under the program.

Registered adults are protected because they have taken the program.

Non-registered adults can be protected because they have taken the program

Other adults are on their own.

 

No, the program offers no protection from abuse, just like any other program ever created, but it does provide the caveat, "You've been warned."


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Stosh

 

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#11 ScoutMom1105

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 06:30 PM

Thanks everyone for your responses. They have been helpful.

There are a lot of red flags with this Pack. From what most of you have said above, I can be fairly certain (at least some of) the DLs are not even registered.

I have offered, for 7 months now, to help with paperwork and the more mundane admin work. I get responses like--"I'll keep that in mind," or "I'll let you know." This Pack has no Committee (Treasurer, Secretary). I have been able to establish an online presence for the Pack, and are thus an informal secretary.

The Dens meet at the same time, which is great in theory, but not so much in practice. The adults chit chat and stare at their phones (DLs included) while the CM does one big group activity. For instance, last Den meeting, ALL the boys were taught knife safety. The Tigers don't need knife safety training--they should be off working out of the Tiger Handbook.

I am at a crossroads here. We will finish out the year and I will continue to fulfill my duties. I don't know yet if we will quietly find another Pack, or if I will approach our District Council. There is only one other parent who seems moderately interested in making things work.
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#12 Jackdaws

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 05:05 AM

If it were me I would run for the hills.  This pack sounds very disorganized and like it doesn't follow the program guidelines. 

 

What den is your son in?  Knife safety shouldn't be broached till Bears. 

 

Is there another pack in your area for you and your son to join?   If so, then maybe see if your current pack is willing to get their ducks in a row and have a training day and a planning meeting. 

 

YP can be taught off line.  I have taught it several times.  We have downloaded the video, watch the scenarios and each person is given a quiz.   We have a parent orientation at the beginning of each year and every parent, whether they are a volunteer or not is to watch it.   I then submit the training sheet to council so if they ever become a leader its already on record.  

 

Most of your basic leader trainings are online and can be completed fairly quickly.   You need to establish a key 3 and make a committee from there.   Really have to wonder if your unit is even re-chartered at this point.


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#13 Torchwood

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 07:42 AM

Your Pack can't re-charter without having an Institutional Head, Chartered Org. Rep, Committee Chair, 2 Committee Members, Cubmaster, and at least one Den Leader registered with the BSA. All Adult Leaders that have direct contact with Scouts MUST take YPT training every other year (our Council requires it to be renewed every year), and it is a good idea for all registered leaders to take it anyway. The Cubmaster must also have taken the Cubmaster Position Specific Training as well. On top of that, each Tiger must have an Adult Partner who is also registered. This information is on the re-charter form. You might want to see if your Council Service Center will provide you with a copy of the most recent charter paperwork. You may also want to find out if you have a Unit Commissioner or District Commissioner that you can talk to about your concerns. It doesn't sound like your Scout is in a Cub Scout Pack, at least not in the way that the BSA defines one.


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#14 perdidochas

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 10:28 AM

Hello,

This past year, my family moved from an urban area to a rural one. We are not just in a different Pack this year, but also a different Council. My son is a Bear. I have two big concerns about this Pack:

(1) The Pack Leader asked all adults--Den Leaders and Parents--to complete the Youth Protection Training Online. Several of us had technical difficulty, so I suggested that we order the DVD and watch it together. I told the PL to let me know if he needed any help getting this set-up. That was back in September. From discussions I had with other parents, YPT was not done last year. Why isn't Council concerned/saying something?

(2) The Pack Leader drove several scouts to a day camp this winter. Does the "two deep" leadership apply to car rides? Should there have been a second adult in the vehicle? Also, there were more Scouts than seatbelts, so I'm kind of shaking my head at the whole deal.

Thanks!

 

As long as there is more than one scout in the car, it's ok on car trips. Not ok to have more scouts than seatbelts.


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