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Posting full names on our troop web site


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#1 BobWhiteVA

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 09:37 PM

Hi All,

I seem to recall that it is prohibited for us to post full names of our Scouts in public areas of our web site, but I can't find any conformation after digging through the BSA social media, privacy and COPPA pages.  The issue came up as we had an event entitled "John Smith's Eagle Project" posted to the public section of our site.  Am I mis-remembering?  To be safe we removed the last name, but I'd like to know if there's a specific policy available.

 

YiS,

 


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#2 qwazse

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 09:54 PM

It sounds like you've read everything that I've read.

 

Your actions were prudent. That should suffice.


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#3 CalicoPenn

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 07:40 AM

There is no official prohibition. It is a suggestion - whether you follow it is up to the unit and parents.
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#4 Back Pack

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 07:54 AM

It mentions not using last names here:
http://scoutingwire....dia-guidelines/

San Houston Council spells it out:
http://www.samhousto...-guidelines.pdf

The Barrier To Abuse also implies maintaining such privacy:
http://www.scouting....n_Scouting.aspx
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#5 blw2

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:55 AM

but then full names will be published in the newspaper, will they not, for participation in sporting events, etc....... or even if a story was ever made about the eagle scout and his project.  I would say in this particular case, I would completely yield to that specific scout and his parents... If John Smith's parents are ok with it, and John himself doesn't have an objection, why not leave it?


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#6 JosephMD

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:58 AM

I get different answers from different people and different documented sources, some linked above!

 

Suggestoin, use common sense.  Know your scouts, know their families, what is their preference?  Be flexible.


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#7 Col. Flagg

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 09:47 AM

I get different answers from different people and different documented sources, some linked above!

 

Suggestoin, use common sense.  Know your scouts, know their families, what is their preference?  Be flexible.

 

The sources listed above are pretty clear.

  • Source #1: "Do not give anyone online your real last name, phone numbers at home or school, your parents’ workplaces, or the name or location of your school or home address unless you have your parents’ permission first. Never give your password to anyone but a parent or other adult in your family."
     
  • Source #2: "Children’s full names with a photo of the child should not appear in this site. If you find a child’s full name with a photo of the child is accidentally placed on a page in this site, please report the error to the content owner, listed at the bottom of the page, or to the Director, Marketing & Communications".
     
  • Scource #1: As with a Scouting activity, safety and Youth Protection should be a key focus. Staying true to the commitment of the BSA to be an advocate for youth and to keep children and their privacy safe, both online and off, should always be at the forefront of any considerations where social media usage is concerned.

EDIT: The talent release form is the only form where you have the option to disclose your full name.


Edited by Col. Flagg, 09 March 2017 - 09:52 AM.

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#8 JosephMD

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 10:09 AM

Even the first source conflicts.  If you can't set the facebook group to private, you are exposing full names of youth who may post on it.


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#9 CalicoPenn

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 10:14 AM

The sources listed above are pretty clear.

  • Source #1: "Do not give anyone online your real last name, phone numbers at home or school, your parents’ workplaces, or the name or location of your school or home address unless you have your parents’ permission first. Never give your password to anyone but a parent or other adult in your family."
     
  • Source #2: "Children’s full names with a photo of the child should not appear in this site. If you find a child’s full name with a photo of the child is accidentally placed on a page in this site, please report the error to the content owner, listed at the bottom of the page, or to the Director, Marketing & Communications".
     
  • Scource #1: As with a Scouting activity, safety and Youth Protection should be a key focus. Staying true to the commitment of the BSA to be an advocate for youth and to keep children and their privacy safe, both online and off, should always be at the forefront of any considerations where social media usage is concerned.

EDIT: The talent release form is the only form where you have the option to disclose your full name.

 

Source #1 (A):  This language applies to Scouts and should be used as part of Cyber Chip.  It is not a prohibition against units using Scout's last names - it is a suggestion to the Scouts that scouts shouldn't use their last names, post anything about school, etc.  In fact, the introduction to that entire section states this:  Any Scout units that plan to use social media should share the following Internet safety guidelines with Scouts, parents, and leaders, and all Scouts should abide by the following Internet safety guidelines and personal protection rules.   That's a section of advice for Scouts and parents - and it's not even a requirement that the unit must follow - look for words like should - that means it's a suggestion, not a requirement.

 

Source #2:  That's the rules for that site, and only that site.  It's a good idea for units to follow - but it's not a requirement that units need follow for their own websites.

 

Source 1(B):  Again - it's a suggestion - they use the word Should again.

 

Understand that I am not disagreeing that its a really good idea for Scout units not to post Scout's last names - Just let's not say that the BSA has created rules and requirements that Units must follow when they haven't. 


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#10 Col. Flagg

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 10:44 AM

Source #1 (A):  This language applies to Scouts and should be used as part of Cyber Chip.  It is not a prohibition against units using Scout's last names - it is a suggestion to the Scouts that scouts shouldn't use their last names, post anything about school, etc.  In fact, the introduction to that entire section states this:  Any Scout units that plan to use social media should share the following Internet safety guidelines with Scouts, parents, and leaders, and all Scouts should abide by the following Internet safety guidelines and personal protection rules.   That's a section of advice for Scouts and parents - and it's not even a requirement that the unit must follow - look for words like should - that means it's a suggestion, not a requirement.

 
First, you assume it applies to Cyber Chip. There is nothing in the citation that says that.

 

Second, It says specifically "Scout units that plan to use social media should share the following Internet safety guidelines with Scouts, parents, and leaders, and all Scouts should abide by the following Internet safety guidelines and personal protection rules:" Saying all Scouts should abide by the guidelines applies to leaders since we are Scouters.

 

I think you are getting caught up in lay terms like "should" and "shall". If someone says you shouldn't do something, to most laymen that means don't. We're slitting hairs here.


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#11 Stosh

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 12:43 PM

I guess I'm a bit out of the box here, but why is it important to publish the full names of the boys on the website?  If it's not necessary, that should suffice as a good reason not to, especially if one is inclined to ask in the first place.


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#12 NJCubScouter

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 02:09 PM

The second link is the only one that actually answers the question, and it is a council site, not a national site.  But I would go with that on the grounds of "better safe than sorry."

 

But it would be nice if national had a clear directive on this.  And as for the different views of whether its clear enough, I have always gone by the philosophy if that if people are arguing about whether a statement is clear enough, it probably isn't.  People have a tendency to think that a statement is clear if it is clear to THEM; but unless the words used mean the same thing to both the speaker and the listener (or the writer and the reader), then communication has not occurred.  


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#13 CalicoPenn

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 12:06 PM

National will not give a clear directive on this because they know that they are not able to enforce it- it's why they use terms like Should and May and Guidelines instead of terms like Shall and Must and Rule.  I know it seems like a rule to a layman but when reading  BSA documents, you should always keep in mind what purpose does the BSA have for writing these - and a reminder - the BSA is writing these to cover their butts.   By using those weasel type of words, they are setting up a defense FOR THEMSELVES against someone claiming in court that the BSA is liable if a Unit posts a Scout's full name and something happens as a result because the BSA didn't enforce the rule. 

 

Colonel - you emphasized the wrong words:  That sentence says that units should share the guidelines with Scouts, parents and leaders and that  all Scouts should abide by the following Internet safety guidelines and personal protection rules.  It states that all SCOUTS should abide by the guidelines - it says nothing at all about parents, leaders or units abiding by the guidelines.

 

And yes, I did assume it would be part of Cyber Chip - after all, aren't those guidelines pretty much the purpose of Cyber Chip?


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#14 Col. Flagg

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 12:33 PM

Colonel - you emphasized the wrong words:  That sentence says that units should share the guidelines with Scouts, parents and leaders and that  all Scouts should abide by the following Internet safety guidelines and personal protection rules.  It states that all SCOUTS should abide by the guidelines - it says nothing at all about parents, leaders or units abiding by the guidelines.

 

If I am an Eagle Scout (note, not "was"), shouldn't I live by the standard they ask Scouts to follow? And if I run the website shouldn't I enforce that for the unit? Tons of space to drive a truck through.

 

I think we all agree privacy is a good thing and we, as leaders, would hopefully NOT post last names, etc. I sent a note to the social media team to ask if there's a single doc that prohibits this practice. I will let you know if I hear anything.


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#15 Tampa Turtle

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 08:56 AM

Avoid full names. Beyond that it is almost unenforceable. While some parents are almost paranoid about their child's unauthorized on-line presence there is always someone that posts a picture from an event. Don't get me started on what the boys take pictures and post. While we do the Cyperchip training the boys do not really follow it unless you let them use their phones at scout events and can use it to take it away. After we tried that for a while our PLC started a phone ban at meetings and campouts so the boys pay attention to the Cyperchip guidelines even less.  


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#16 Ankylus

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 05:15 PM

One thing you might consider. Once a year we have the scout's parents execute a "privacy statement" or something. I forget what we call it. Basically, it provides several options, each representing a different level of disclosure. Some parents are OK with first names, or pics with no name, or full names, or in the newsletter but not the website,  or whatever. We provide them the opportunity to tell us exactly what they are comfortable with.


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#17 5yearscouter

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 04:28 PM

One thing you might consider. Once a year we have the scout's parents execute a "privacy statement" or something. I forget what we call it. Basically, it provides several options, each representing a different level of disclosure. Some parents are OK with first names, or pics with no name, or full names, or in the newsletter but not the website,  or whatever. We provide them the opportunity to tell us exactly what they are comfortable with.

But keeping track of who can post what about which scout becomes a nightmare when you are dealing with 70 scouts on the troop website.

Waaaaayyyyy easier to set a default for your unit to do no harm--which means as adults trying to protect the child's privacy in our troop website and online interactions. 

If a youth gives away his own privacy-full name, etc. by choice after being trained on the possible repercussions and parents given the same training, then it's on them.  not on us as unit leaders.


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#18 Stosh

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 06:34 PM

There is nothing illegal about anyone taking pictures of anyone else in public.  Once a person takes the picture, they own it and it's rights.  Giving permission to take the picture only gives a photographer additional deterrent if the subject of the picture wishes to sue.  There is nothing illegal about someone standing out side a school playground or even in a public park playground taking pictures of children.  Only child pornography is illegal.

 

If a parent doesn't want a picture taken of their child and posted on the internet they need to do due diligence and not have their child attend the activity.

 

http://jezebel.com/5...kids-be-illegal


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#19 5yearscouter

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 06:41 PM

We've had issues with cubs in a domestic violence abuse situation where posting photos of the cub online put them at risk because they were hiding from dad.  So we didn't post any pics of that cub, with our without his full name attached.  That is common decency.

 

There is also such a thing as needing to have a model release to use photos of other people for certain purposes like advertising.  So you can't just take photos of kids and use them how you wish. 

 

A scout (and scouter) is friendly and courteous, getting parental permissions would fall under that.  Using photos just because you can is poor form, and considered poor netiquette to post photos of other people's kids online..


Edited by 5yearscouter, 28 March 2017 - 06:42 PM.

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#20 Ankylus

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 09:13 AM

But keeping track of who can post what about which scout becomes a nightmare when you are dealing with 70 scouts on the troop website.

Waaaaayyyyy easier to set a default for your unit to do no harm--which means as adults trying to protect the child's privacy in our troop website and online interactions. 

If a youth gives away his own privacy-full name, etc. by choice after being trained on the possible repercussions and parents given the same training, then it's on them.  not on us as unit leaders.

 

I absolutely agree with all of that.


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