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Troop Meeting Place has a.... stocked bar


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#41 bearess

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 05:54 PM

Yeh, I had to put the stop on the boys going into the bar and getting the free popcorn there.  The image issue was a concern.  I told them that if they wanted popcorn, buy some and we can make it up in the kitchen.  They never questioned it after that. 
 
There was a second bar in the banquet hall were the boys met and although the boys used the stools to sit on during patrol meetings, they never went behind the bar.
 
The only concern I had is when the IH would come to "see how the boys were doing." and would be a bit over-consumed with a high-ball in his hand...... and the boys knew he had had too much.  We discussed it amongst ourselves and that was the end of it.
 
I think there is a direct ratio between adult hysteria and youth curiosity.


I agree, and I didn't grow up to be hysterical about alcohol (or guns). My kids see me drink, and they occasionally have a (very small) glass of wine or beer. BUT I'd be very concerned about the liability of having unsecured alcohol around underage kids. If the bar is in sight- but adequately secured- I'd have no issue. But in sight and unsecured- that's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
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#42 Back Pack

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 05:58 PM

Is anyone worried about unsecured alcohol in a troop where all pocket knives, axes and saws are secured when their kids are around?

What happened to teaching responsibility?
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#43 Stosh

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 09:08 PM

Secured?  In plain sight of all adult leaders?  Heck I don't have my alcohol at home "secured" other than being in a cabinet above the stove,  If I was all that worried about it I could always turn the stove on when my grandkids are around to deter them from crawling up there to get at the booze. 

 

I guess I'll have to retink my strategy when I have MB boys over to the hosue.  The 5 gal jug in the back room of fermenting grapes might be too much for them to handle.

 

With my kids,  the teaching moments were enough that they don't seem to be big in the party scene and alcohol is no big deal to them.  When I stop buy to visit the grandkids, I generally get offered soda because I always turn a beer or  glass of wine down because I'm driving.  They have asked that we try and remember to put our conceal carry items in the glove box before coming into the house.  On the other hand my other daughter has asked me to teach her how to use weapons because she and her husband want to have self protection in her home.  Every lesson needs to be formulated specifically for every person.  Wide sweeping hysteria never really worked for me, but specific dialog lessons seem to work the best. 

 

The patrol that would meet in the corner with the banquet bar were gently reminded not to go behind the bar because we didn't want to get kicked out of our meeting place.  Because of that we never had to mention the issue again.


Edited by Stosh, 09 March 2017 - 09:08 PM.

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#44 tyke

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 06:57 AM

It's a bar, not an opium den, so as long as the kids arn't helping themselves does it matter? Loads of scout camps in the UK have bars on site, and lots of scout events take place in sports clubs with bars
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#45 qwazse

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 08:47 AM

It's a bar, not an opium den, so as long as the kids arn't helping themselves does it matter? Loads of scout camps in the UK have bars on site, and lots of scout events take place in sports clubs with bars

Different country, @tyke.

 

The working assumption is that kids (especially 14-20 year olds) will help themselves ... in violation of federal and state statutes. Therefore the property owners must take due diligence to secure all alcoholic drinks, or they will be liable for harm to the kids or caused by the kids resulting from their "helping" themselves. A litigious parent could file suit for negligence if a boy merely posed with a bottle or case that he never even opened. The suit would likely fall flat, but the time and dollars spent defending it would discourage further sponsorship of a troop.

 

So, a club has to be very alert to that.

 

Camps don't allow alcohol on the premises ... a challenge for some of our leaders.

 

Unlike on your side of the pond, most parents prefer a culture where kids come nowhere near pubs, so the pattern is reinforced.


Edited by qwazse, 17 March 2017 - 08:48 AM.

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#46 Col. Flagg

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:47 AM

I wonder how many of these indignant parents lock up their liquor, us e parental locks on TV or monitor their kids phones or online activity. In my experience their concern is misplaced.

 

Where I live there used to be dry counties all over. It is a very conservative area, and yet many VFW posts sponsor BSA units where this very thing is allowed (private clubs). There's little to no discussion on the topic. It is simply a non-issue.


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#47 RememberSchiff

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 10:22 AM

Indignant or responsible or moral or smart choice?  Some parents have no alcohol in their homes. I don't.

 

Back in the day (here he goes), my old Council would not charter organizations which had/served alcohol on their premises. There was no shortage of public schools and churches willing to sponsor BSA units.

 

I think the BSA will adopt the Scouting Association stand on alcohol (link below) and as soon as we hear beer being served at Summit for whatever the activity, scouting or not, there will be beer at scout camps.

 

https://members.scou...cat=419,299,303


Edited by RememberSchiff, 17 March 2017 - 10:24 AM.

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#48 NJCubScouter

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 10:54 AM

I wonder how many of these indignant parents lock up their liquor, us e parental locks on TV or monitor their kids phones or online activity. In my experience their concern is misplaced.

 

I have seen no sign that the original poster (or anyone else involved in this particular situation) is "indignant" about this.  And I don't think the main issue here is really whether someone (adult or youth) is going to steal any of the alcohol.  The "concern" seems to be whether this particular room is really the "right environment" for a Boy Scout meeting, and even beyond that, whether the CO's facility as a whole is the "right environment."  I don't see how anyone here (other than Cubmaster Pete) can really know whether that concern is "misplaced", and it isn't our decision anyway.


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#49 Col. Flagg

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 11:22 AM

Providing the original post...

 

Both the Pack and Troop share the same CO, a local sportsman club. We have a great relationship with them, they are financially supportive.

 

The pack meets at church in town. The church hall has a better layout for us as a pack. The troop meets at the club, which has a bar. They meet in the room with the bar, but I do not believe the bar is open at the time of the troop meetings. It is stocked with alcohol in plain view.

 

Thoughts? It this ok? I feel like its a fine line. 

 

 

I have seen no sign that the original poster (or anyone else involved in this particular situation) is "indignant" about this.  And I don't think the main issue here is really whether someone (adult or youth) is going to steal any of the alcohol.  The "concern" seems to be whether this particular room is really the "right environment" for a Boy Scout meeting, and even beyond that, whether the CO's facility as a whole is the "right environment."  I don't see how anyone here (other than Cubmaster Pete) can really know whether that concern is "misplaced", and it isn't our decision anyway.

 

The words were mine. I was not quoting the OP. I was applying the word indignant to the sentiment that the temperance movement seems to be applying to the situation, and I drew out other issues which are more pervasive and less monitored of which adults should be more concerned. The OP knew the line was fine. My point was that yes, the line is fine, but the existence of booze should be no worse than a TV being on with prime time programming, someone smoking near by or 

 

Simply put, having booze in plain view of Scouts (with adults around to monitor and help discuss if there are questions) is LESS of an issue than bullying, YPT, internet or chat room usage, use of SnapChat, or other things that Scouts are confronted with daily where this is little to no adult monitoring or intervention.

 

If we are going to get upset about booze bottles we should be upset about a few other things done around Scouts. IMHO it is a non-issue.


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#50 Stosh

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 11:27 AM

The hypocrisy of this issue is quite prevalent in our area.  At our annual awards banquet, for example, one can tell the ones who are drinking alcohol and those that aren't, just look to see who's wearing a uniform and who is not.  Like that is some magical elixir that allows them to have a cocktail, just dump the uniform.  They are at a public restaurant, it is a scouting event, sitting with uniformed adults knocking one down. Really?  Sometimes I often wonder if the kids are more mature with their decisions at a CO that serves alcohol than some of the adults. 


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#51 T2Eagle

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 10:47 PM

Indignant or responsible or moral or smart choice?  Some parents have no alcohol in their homes. I don't.

 

Back in the day (here he goes), my old Council would not charter organizations which had/served alcohol on their premises. There was no shortage of public schools and churches willing to sponsor BSA units.

 

I think the BSA will adopt the Scouting Association stand on alcohol (link below) and as soon as we hear beer being served at Summit for whatever the activity, scouting or not, there will be beer at scout camps.

 

https://members.scou...cat=419,299,303

How sure are you about the no chartering orgs that served alcohol.  That could easily eliminate most Catholic parishes and Knights of Columbus councils.  Back in the day, and it was a long day ago, my Pack was sponsored by a KofC, and we met in the social room that also contained a stocked bar.  That council sold their building and so we met in the parish school gym, which also was the parish social hall, and there were live (locked) beer taps in the corner.


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#52 RememberSchiff

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 12:38 AM

How sure are you about the no chartering orgs that served alcohol.  That could easily eliminate most Catholic parishes and Knights of Columbus councils.  Back in the day, and it was a long day ago, my Pack was sponsored by a KofC, and we met in the social room that also contained a stocked bar.  That council sold their building and so we met in the parish school gym, which also was the parish social hall, and there were live (locked) beer taps in the corner.

Could have been just my Council back then. Our local Republican Club tried to charter a Boy Scout troop and was turned down for that reason. Some thought it was politics as it was '68 and candidate Nixon was coming to town.

 

Catholic churches chartered through their parochial school where their units also met, not the Knights of Columbus.

 

Back then, there were plenty of schools and churches, where the boys were, seeking charters. 

 

Times change.


Edited by RememberSchiff, 18 March 2017 - 01:08 AM.

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#53 Cambridgeskip

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 02:33 AM

 Back in the day, and it was a long day ago, my Pack was sponsored by a KofC.


I read that first time as having been chartered by KFC. Would have been a different string to Colonel Saunders bow :)
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#54 Stosh

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 07:50 AM

How sure are you about the no chartering orgs that served alcohol.  That could easily eliminate most Catholic parishes and Knights of Columbus councils.  Back in the day, and it was a long day ago, my Pack was sponsored by a KofC, and we met in the social room that also contained a stocked bar.  That council sold their building and so we met in the parish school gym, which also was the parish social hall, and there were live (locked) beer taps in the corner.

 

Why stop there?  The first troop I was with at a sportsman/conservation club had a stocked bar, the second troop was at an American Legion had an open bar in the next room.  So far the only units that didn't have a bar was with either a school or non-Catholic church.  One of our Cub packs is chartered by a pizza restaurant, which of course serves alcohol in the room next to the room where the Cubs meet.  Yet, I have never heard in the past 20+ years anyone having an issue with these situations.  Neither has this topic been brought up in any training done by the council, any RT discussions or even conversations where scouts gather.  The only topic discussed has been the hypocrisy of not wearing a uniform to an adult scouting activity so they could consume alcohol there.


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#55 RememberSchiff

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 08:24 AM

IMO, the ideal CO was one which had a gym for our meeting place. As a scout, my troop met in a gym which was part of a Presbyterian school. Those were the days my friend.


Edited by RememberSchiff, 18 March 2017 - 08:31 AM.

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#56 Stosh

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 09:33 AM

When I was a kid, many moons ago, my buddy and I would go downtown to one of the local bars where his dad worked at as a bartender.  We would get a soda and sit at the bar.

 

I didn't become an alcoholic later in life.  Do I drink?  Yes, but never on days that I drive.  If it's my birthday and I want a glass of wine, the Mrs. drives and doesn't drink.  I do the same for her when it's her birthday.  :)

 

Did I grow up in an alcohol free home?  Nope.  My dad became an alcoholic later in life.  I have been around alcoholics all my life and it's the #1 reason why I am not.


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Stosh

 

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#57 DadScouts

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 01:24 PM

The only true thing in Scouting life is you can never please all Scout parents all of the time.  We meet at a church facility that is not our CO.  The church is great and allows several community groups to meet there.  One or two parents complained when the church allowed an Alcoholics Anonymous group to meet in a different side room the same night as our Troop meetings.  The SM was floored.  

We would even see a couple former Scout parents from time to time attending the AA meetings.  It was nice to chat with them, catch up, and see how their sons were doing.  


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#58 Rick_in_CA

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 02:50 PM

One or two parents complained when the church allowed an Alcoholics Anonymous group to meet in a different side room the same night as our Troop meetings.  The SM was floored.  
We would even see a couple former Scout parents from time to time attending the AA meetings.  It was nice to chat with them, catch up, and see how their sons were doing.

What was their complaint?
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