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Troop Meeting Place has a.... stocked bar


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#21 David CO

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 11:26 AM

The club charters both the pack and the troop. The pack meets at the church, and they are aware. Never said a word.

 

A few months ago, we helped with a trash pickup. While we were there, lots of club members walking around with open containers, guns waving around, etc..... I was uncomfortable, so were the other leaders that were with. 

 

We were offered to fundraise during open shoots, but my leadership is concerned about the open containers at these events too.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by guns "waving" around.  Are you saying that the club does not follow the usual gun safety rules, or are you indicating that you are personally uncomfortable around guns, even if the gun safety rules are being observed?

 

I am beginning to suspect that you are not comfortable with your Chartered Organization.  If this is the case, then you should change units.  


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#22 David CO

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 11:32 AM

Maybe this is a weird concern, but my first thought wasn't that the kids would swipe a drink but that an adult might. I'm also thinking of this from my own perspective and imagining this scenario with scouts and scouters I know, and I can't think of any kids I'd worry about around the bar. But there are a couple of adults from the past that I'd have concerns about. One being a recovering alcoholic. 

 

Seems like an all-around bad place, though. Who needs the stress/worry about something happening, or the liability if a bottle goes missing. 

 

It doesn't sound like a bad place to me.  But if you feel that a Chartered Organization is a bad place, then you are free to choose another unit.  I would even recommend that you do so.

 

I would never even consider joining a unit if I wasn't comfortable with the Chartered Organization.


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#23 NJCubScouter

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 12:26 PM

The second of the two troops I was a member of as a Scout met in the "clubhouse" of the CO, but it was a fairly sprawling facility and the bar (which had fairly limited hours as I recall) was in its own room.  In fact, the room where the troop met was all the way on the other side of the facility from the bar.  I think I would have an issue with the bar being right there in the meeting room.


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#24 Col. Flagg

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 01:42 PM

I think I would have an issue with the bar being right there in the meeting room.

 

Why? 


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#25 NJCubScouter

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 02:46 PM

Why? 

 

Maybe I'm a little old-fashioned about some things.  It just doesn't sound like the right setting for a Boy Scout meeting to me.  But that's just me.  It's a decision for the leaders of that troop to make.


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#26 Col. Flagg

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 03:03 PM

Maybe I'm a little old-fashioned about some things.  It just doesn't sound like the right setting for a Boy Scout meeting to me.  But that's just me.  It's a decision for the leaders of that troop to make.

 

It seems booze in bottles is the last thing one needs to be worried about if someone is being "old-fashioned" given all the other changes lately. 

 

If anything it is a chance to have an open conversation about the dangers of alcohol.


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#27 David CO

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 03:24 PM

I think there are two separate issues being discussed here.  The first is a safety issue.  The second is an image issue.


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#28 NJCubScouter

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 03:32 PM

I think there are two separate issues being discussed here.  The first is a safety issue.  The second is an image issue.

 

I think that's true.  I guess I am seeing the alcohol as an image issue, not a safety issue.  And it isn't a huge deal.  It just wouldn't be my preference, if it were up to me.


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#29 Fehler

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 04:07 PM

Alcohol I'm not too concerned about, if its kept secure.  But if it's a smoking-allowed room, absolutely not, even if no one is smoking when scouts are present.  Can't abide the stink.


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#30 David CO

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 04:20 PM

Maybe I'm a little old-fashioned about some things.  It just doesn't sound like the right setting for a Boy Scout meeting to me.  But that's just me.  It's a decision for the leaders of that troop to make.

 

The Chartered Organization owns the unit.  The decision is ultimately theirs to make.


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#31 krikkitbot

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 04:28 PM

The club charters both the pack and the troop. The pack meets at the church, and they are aware. Never said a word.

 

A few months ago, we helped with a trash pickup. While we were there, lots of club members walking around with open containers, guns waving around, etc..... I was uncomfortable, so were the other leaders that were with. 

 

We were offered to fundraise during open shoots, but my leadership is concerned about the open containers at these events too.

I'm confused.

 

Were the people who were drinking waving guns around?

 

Were people, who were not drinking, waving guns around or were they wearing open carry and that made you uncomfortable?

 

Or were there some people drinking and some different people carrying guns? Were either of the activities illegal?


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#32 NJCubScouter

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 04:32 PM

The Chartered Organization owns the unit.  The decision is ultimately theirs to make.

 

As others have pointed out, a unit does not necessarily have to meet at the CO.  


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#33 Col. Flagg

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 04:38 PM

Alcohol I'm not too concerned about, if its kept secure.  But if it's a smoking-allowed room, absolutely not, even if no one is smoking when scouts are present.  Can't abide the stink.

 

That's a health issue. Same would hold for mold or dust or heat or any other meeting space that put people's health at risk. 

 

Looking at booze bottles is no more a danger than looking at Cindy Charles in a Scout uniform.


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#34 David CO

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 05:27 PM

As others have pointed out, a unit does not necessarily have to meet at the CO.  

 

They do if the Chartered Organization says they do.


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#35 Cubmaster Pete

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 06:47 PM

I'm confused.

 

Were the people who were drinking waving guns around?

 

Were people, who were not drinking, waving guns around or were they wearing open carry and that made you uncomfortable?

 

Or were there some people drinking and some different people carrying guns? Were either of the activities illegal?

 

A little of both.

 

I was put off by the behavior of some club members while we were there. They knew we were there, they saw us, and were not setting a great example as adults, IMHO.

 

I am not uncomfortable with booze, or guns. Mixing the two bothers me, and booze has no place in scouting.


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#36 RememberSchiff

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 06:55 PM

They do if the Chartered Organization says they do.

 

According the Unit Charter Agreement the CO has to "ensure appropriate facilities for the unit for its regular meetings to facilitate the aims of the Chartered Organization AND Scouting.

 

So it is more by mutual agreement IMO and hopefully everyone wants to do what is best for our kids.


Edited by RememberSchiff, 07 March 2017 - 06:57 PM.

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#37 David CO

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 07:16 PM

According the Unit Charter Agreement the CO has to "ensure appropriate facilities for the unit for its regular meetings to facilitate the aims of the Chartered Organization AND Scouting.

 

So it is more by mutual agreement IMO and hopefully everyone wants to do what is best for our kids.

 

If it is by mutual agreement, and I'm not saying it is, then it is an agreement between the CO and BSA.  It is not a mutual agreement between the CO and the unit leaders.  

 

The CO owns the unit, and the unit leaders serve at the pleasure of the CO.


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#38 Stosh

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 07:21 PM

I think there are two separate issues being discussed here.  The first is a safety issue.  The second is an image issue.

 

Yeh, I had to put the stop on the boys going into the bar and getting the free popcorn there.  The image issue was a concern.  I told them that if they wanted popcorn, buy some and we can make it up in the kitchen.  They never questioned it after that. 

 

There was a second bar in the banquet hall were the boys met and although the boys used the stools to sit on during patrol meetings, they never went behind the bar.

 

The only concern I had is when the IH would come to "see how the boys were doing." and would be a bit over-consumed with a high-ball in his hand...... and the boys knew he had had too much.  We discussed it amongst ourselves and that was the end of it.

 

I think there is a direct ratio between adult hysteria and youth curiosity. 


Edited by Stosh, 07 March 2017 - 07:23 PM.

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#39 frankpalazzi

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 12:37 PM

If the sight of a few booze bottles might curdle the milk then may I suggest:

 

-A few cardboard boxes to cover the "offending" containers?

-Asking the CO to move the bottles beneath the bar/out of sight? (They really should be doing this anyway.)

-Then of course there remains the issue of the BAR STRUCTURE. (How offensive!)  Just declare the area OFF LIMITS to all Scouts and Scouters.  If you see someone head toward that area, speak up. Worked for us meeting in an American Legion function hall.  10 years, never a problem.

 

If the above steps don't solve the "problem," then meet across town on a different night.

 

Thank God you have a CO that cares enough to host a Pack/Troop.  A good CO is hard to find these days.  Just be thankful and stop making waves.  Concentrate on your program.

 

You'll never make everyone happy no matter what you do.


Edited by RememberSchiff, 09 March 2017 - 01:59 PM.
Overly derogatory

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#40 qwazse

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 12:59 PM

... I think there is a direct ratio between adult hysteria and youth curiosity. 

I suppose that's why Dad had us working middle school summers with a driver delivering beer in and out of every bar in the county.

 

One summer was enough for me ... after that I lined up back-to-back camps and home-improvement projects. :mellow:

 

When we meet at the sportsman's club for training, the RSO (a former SM) asks to clear the bar so the boys can sit there.  It's much easier to instruct the boys while they are seated at the stools around the "U".


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