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Wilderness First Aid, How long is the cert good for?


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#21 RichardB

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 03:00 PM

The Red Cross does not do WFA in our area anymore and is dropping it from their offerings.  BSA and others have been doing it so it's no longer feasible to provide it.  I was hoping to get it for free, being an ARC volunteer.  Nope, nothing in our area is offered.

 

BSA or 3rd party.  The question is why isn't BSA putting it on for free?  It's their program after all.

 

BSA does not teach WFA, it never has.  The course curriculum has been adopted by both American Red Cross and ECSI.   We have worked with both to build instructor capacity in local councils.  

 

ARC info:   http://www.scouting....amredcross.aspx

 

ECSI Info:  http://www.scouting....ining/ECSI.aspx

 

To teach the course, one needs to be either an ARC or ECSI instructor.    So, if you are an ARC instructor, add it on.   

 

And fundimentally, the WFA course helps those running trek and high adventure backcountry camps meet both BSA NCAP and American Camp Association Accreditation standards.    It might be important to the understanding of the concept.   

 

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#22 Col. Flagg

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 03:08 PM

BSA does not teach WFA, it never has.  The course curriculum has been adopted by both American Red Cross and ECSI.   We have worked with both to build instructor capacity in local councils.


By "BSA" I mean local units, districts or councils.


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#23 RememberSchiff

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 03:21 PM

In New England, just about each year, WFA courses taught by SOLO instructors are hosted by a Council or unit.  $120-150pp. I have not seen any Red Cross offerings here.


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#24 blw2

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 03:53 PM

I mentioned earlier than ours is a red cross course....only say that because the info page has the red cross logo

https://www.nfcscout...erness-firstaid

I had just assumed that it's a course using a red cross curriculum and red cross certified instructor. (probably a volunteer is my guess, speaking to Stosh's point about cost...)


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#25 Stosh

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 04:19 PM

The ARC used to teach the course on behalf of the BSA.  Not offered for many years in our state.  BSA either does it themselves or hires a third party to do it.


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#26 RichardB

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 07:43 AM

The ARC used to teach the course on behalf of the BSA.  Not offered for many years in our state.  BSA either does it themselves or hires a third party to do it.

 

Stosh, respectfully, The ARC has not taught a course on "behalf" of the BSA.   The ARC teaches ARC courses.   The current position of the BSA and its relationship to ARC is listed in the link above, that relationship affords councils, leaders the ability to become ARC instructors and to teach ARC courses at a discount, but following ARC criteria and standards.   The ARC Wilderness and Remote First Aid Course can be offered by an ARC instructor so qualified.    You may wish to contact your council training folks if you want to put together a course in your area, see if there are qualifed instructors available.  

 

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#27 jrush

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 04:01 PM

The Red Cross does not do WFA in our area anymore and is dropping it from their offerings.  BSA and others have been doing it so it's no longer feasible to provide it.  I was hoping to get it for free, being an ARC volunteer.  Nope, nothing in our area is offered.

 

BSA or 3rd party.  The question is why isn't BSA putting it on for free?  It's their program after all.

 

I went through some of this with regard to CPR.

 

I don't know if it's the only one, but the Red Cross does have a Wilderness and Remote First Aid course, same as they have various First Aid/CPR/AED courses.   You can get certified to be an instructor for the ARC.  The Red Cross will set up a user agreement with your council and the instructor can do the courses for a significant discount.  I can do First Aid/CPR/AED under $10 per card for scouts and scouters.   Anyone can get certified to be an instructor for the Red Cross...not sure why the Red Cross would drop it in a specific area unless they didn't have an instructor on staff in that area anymore.

 

I would presume the BSA uses the Red Cross version and instructor so they have some legal standing of "this was taught by a qualified instructor" before accepting the liability for high adventure outings which require WFA...no different than requiring some form of certified CPR instruction for BSA lifeguard. 

 

But, in any event, someone can go to the Red Cross, get certified to teach it, get an agreement with your Council office knocked out, and teach the course as often as needed.


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#28 Stosh

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 05:31 PM

I went through some of this with regard to CPR.

 

I don't know if it's the only one, but the Red Cross does have a Wilderness and Remote First Aid course, same as they have various First Aid/CPR/AED courses.   You can get certified to be an instructor for the ARC.  The Red Cross will set up a user agreement with your council and the instructor can do the courses for a significant discount.  I can do First Aid/CPR/AED under $10 per card for scouts and scouters.   Anyone can get certified to be an instructor for the Red Cross...not sure why the Red Cross would drop it in a specific area unless they didn't have an instructor on staff in that area anymore.

 

I would presume the BSA uses the Red Cross version and instructor so they have some legal standing of "this was taught by a qualified instructor" before accepting the liability for high adventure outings which require WFA...no different than requiring some form of certified CPR instruction for BSA lifeguard. 

 

But, in any event, someone can go to the Red Cross, get certified to teach it, get an agreement with your Council office knocked out, and teach the course as often as needed.

 

I'm a certified instructor for the Red Cross, but in a different area (Disaster Mass Care).  Unless the Council approves it, I cannot teach it.  Instructors can generally charge whatever they want over cost of materials.  Our council instructors charge $70 per person for the one year certification.  This is why I don't get involved in the process.  Sounds kinda fishy.  I teach Red Cross volunteers in Disaster Mass Care and charge nothing, the training is free.  I'm a volunteer after all.


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#29 mashmaster

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 02:50 PM

For CPR and basic first aid, I get trained yearly for work for free.  Most companies want so many to be emergency response team members and will get you trained for free.  

 

That doesn't cover the WFA portion, but it is a start.


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#30 Col. Flagg

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 05:47 AM

Here's a great reason why more outdoor enthusiasts need to learn about HAPE and HACE. Needless deaths keep occurring because people want to enjoy the outdoors but are not trained.

20-year-old hiker died of altitude sickness, mom says
http://www.foxnews.c...s-mom-says.html
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#31 HelpfulTracks

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 06:28 AM

Our council is a registered ECSI Education Center, and has trained and qualified instructor(s) in council as well.

 

My son and I took WFA last Spring from the council and cost $35/scout(er), which included WFA and CPR/AED. The cost was basically what the book cost to purchase at full retail (you can find it cheaper), so it was extremely good value. More so when you consider that organizations around us are charging $200 or more.

 

BSA is requiring WFA certified individuals for high adventure and some back county outings now, so if your troop is participating in those as a troop you will need it.

 

A unit may also become a certified education center as well, as long as you have volunteers with the proper training and credentials and meet ECSI requirements.


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#32 Col. Flagg

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 07:09 AM

We have a local unit which does the training. It's $80 for the weekend. They do scenarios and real hands on work. Best training I've had. The classroom only offerings are okay, but the scenario based offerings are the best.
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#33 cchoat

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 10:11 AM

I have two ASM's, one is a medical doctor, the other a nurse.  They attend all activities in the woods.   I believe that trumps WFA.


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#34 Back Pack

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 10:58 AM

I have two ASM's, one is a medical doctor, the other a nurse.  They attend all activities in the woods.   I believe that trumps WFA.


Depends. We have a few doctors and a few nurses. One of our nurses is a ER trauma nurse. He's great! Better than all of the others. The best guy we have is a former Marine medic. He is the best my dad has ever seen. Even the doctors let him step in first.
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#35 jwest09

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 12:20 PM

I have two ASM's, one is a medical doctor, the other a nurse.  They attend all activities in the woods.   I believe that trumps WFA.

 

 

Depends. We have a few doctors and a few nurses. One of our nurses is a ER trauma nurse. He's great! Better than all of the others. The best guy we have is a former Marine medic. He is the best my dad has ever seen. Even the doctors let him step in first.

 

 

Paramedic here.  Back Pack is correct.  There's a lot of different types of doctors and nurses.  Many doctors and nurses practice little, if any, emergency medicine in their day to day life.


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#36 RememberSchiff

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 12:35 PM

Depends. We have a few doctors and a few nurses. One of our nurses is a ER trauma nurse. He's great! Better than all of the others. The best guy we have is a former Marine medic. He is the best my dad has ever seen. Even the doctors let him step in first.

 

My understanding is Marine medic is a misnomer, Navy Corpsmen serve Marine units.


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#37 Back Pack

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 12:40 PM

My understanding is Marine medic is a misnomer, Navy Corpsmen serve Marine units.


Correct. We just call him "doc". Ask him and he will say he was a corpsman without saying which service he was in but he will tell you he was part of the recon marines. He's not to be toyed with. He looks like John Cena. He's 60. We just call him "sir".
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#38 mashmaster

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 01:26 PM

Correct. We just call him "doc". Ask him and he will say he was a corpsman without saying which service he was in but he will tell you he was part of the recon marines. He's not to be toyed with. He looks like John Cena. He's 60. We just call him "sir".

Nice!

 

We have a scouter that taught EMS people.  It is funny when the adults try to tell him how to take care of something while he is quietly treating the issue and sending them on their way.  He just smiles, and listens.


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#39 ItsBrian

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 05:31 PM

If you are going to take WFA or did, I would also suggest taking First Responder training. It’s more advanced than first aid / CPR. I’m getting certified this year through school.
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ItsBrian

 


#40 blw2

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:42 PM

Depends. We have a few doctors and a few nurses. One of our nurses is a ER trauma nurse. He's great! Better than all of the others. The best guy we have is a former Marine medic. He is the best my dad has ever seen. Even the doctors let him step in first.

 

I read a lot of memoirs and autobiographies...military stuff.

This reminds me of one of the Navy Seal guys I read...  He talked about his medic training.  I don't remember for sure, it might have been but I don't think corpsman was his MOS, but he was the platoon medic (don't remember if that's the title he used... but you get the general idea).  I don't know...it's been a while, maybe he was a corpsman.

Anyway, those guys were taught real hands-on stuff....not counting the real-world experience...just the training before they go out there.....

The goat lab is what really stuck in my memory. 

They would buy goats from local farmers.  The instructors would take a goat away from the students (around the corner or in the next room), and do all sorts of brutally bad stuff to it. 

Then bring in the student.  Take off teh blindfold.  Real world real timeline.  No goofing around....

They had to assess and treat, and keep the goat alive for a specified amount of time.

The goats would then go back to the locals for use as dinner

 

I don't imagine the average family medicine doc has ever been exposed to that sort of thing.  Sure they might be full MD, but different theaters of operation all together.  Not even close.  Except for perhaps an ER doc, I can imagine the doctors, the smart ones anyway, would let the military medic step in first almost every time.


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