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Ditch the Neckerchief


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#21 The Latin Scot

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 06:51 PM

Actually National supply has quit making them. They are now only selling what is left in their inventory.

 

Where did you hear this? Source? I have been in communication with people from my local scout shop, scoutstuff.org, national supply, even scoutingmagazine.org; and so far nobody has heard anything about this. I would be extremely surprised to learn that the BSA isn't producing neckerchiefs as part of their uniform wear anymore. Are they not making socks, or hats, or Scout shirts either? This sounds mighty suspect if you ask me.


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#22 TAHAWK

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 10:39 PM

Scoutstuff only has the "custom" models fro sale.

 

I some countries, the necker IS the uniform.


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#23 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 10:48 PM

Where did you hear this? Source? I have been in communication with people from my local scout shop, scoutstuff.org, national supply, even scoutingmagazine.org; and so far nobody has heard anything about this. I would be extremely surprised to learn that the BSA isn't producing neckerchiefs as part of their uniform wear anymore. Are they not making socks, or hats, or Scout shirts either? This sounds mighty suspect if you ask me.

 

 

Local council shop. 3 of the neckers the troop used have been discontinued. If you go to scoutstuff.org and look up neckerchief, you will onlt find the three neckerchiefs in addition to the specialty and Cub Scout ones.

 

http://www.scoutstuf...LZQT_LdUo0     and only 3 of the styles remain ( I want to say about 30 printed ones when I use to work in supply in the 90s and 2000s)

 

http://www.scoutstuf...l#.WLZQC_LdUo0 And we were told once they were gone, they were gone.


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#24 The Latin Scot

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 12:10 AM

Hmm. My Scout Shop hasn't heard anything about inventory being limited. And as far as the online store goes, I find TONS of different neckerchiefs available!

 

The online store says these are all "in stock." No indication whatsoever of limited supplies:

 

http://www.scoutstuf...embroidery.html

 

Or you can get a customized neckerchief, again no indication of low quanitities:

 

http://www.scoutstuf...ckerchiefs.html

 

If you have an Eagle coming up soon, get him an Eagle necker:

 

http://www.scoutstuf...f-new-size.html

 

It even comes embroidered if you want to be extra-fancy:

 

http://www.scoutstuf...f-new-size.html

 

Cub Scouts have the full set of neckers for every rank:

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/neck-tc.html

http://www.scoutstuf...eckerchief.html

http://www.scoutstuf...eckerchief.html

http://www.scoutstuf...eckerchief.html

 

Of course Cub Scout leaders have their own set to choose from:

 

http://www.scoutstuf...f-new-size.html

http://www.scoutstuf...f-new-size.html

http://www.scoutstuf...eckerchief.html

 

And there is a huge variety for adult leaders of every position:

 

http://www.scoutstuf...tional-adt.html

http://www.scoutstuf...eckerchief.html

http://www.scoutstuf...eckerchief.html

http://www.scoutstuf...mmissioner.html

 

There are neckers for Scout Sunday and Sea Scouts, even full square options for the upcoming Jamboree!

 

http://www.scoutstuf...triangular.html

http://www.scoutstuf...n-orn-2016.html

http://www.scoutstuf...andana-map.html

http://www.scoutstuf...a-survival.html

 

If you ask me, they aren't getting rid of the neckerchief any time soon. And there is another possibility that hasn't been considered - if they are in fact phasing these out, it could just as easily be to make room for more, new neckerchiefs that could take their place. If we're lucky, full squares too! I hardly think these are signs of the BSA getting rid of such a crucial part of the organizations uniform and history.  :happy:


Edited by The Latin Scot, 01 March 2017 - 12:11 AM.

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#25 ianwilkins

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 02:50 AM

If you went co-ed you should keep the necker so that girls can use them as headscarves and headbands to keep their mane of hair out of their eyes whilst doing stuff.  ;)

 

Also from the UK, some are quite happy wearing the necker when out and about, some are not, last time I had to give out grief about it*, they left shortly after, despite seemingly enjoying what we did. Pure peer pressure. Ho hum, can't win 'em all.

 

* Day trip to the London 2012 Olympic Park. We had 20 UK Explorers, and 20 Portuguese Pioneiros, I told them they'd get a rocket up them if I caught them without a necker on. The small group that hung around the shopping mall next door all day got caught several times without necker, well, the English ones anyway, who insisted it really wasn't cool, but didn't mind at all walking around with some Portuguese that were fine with wearing it...go figure. Meanwhile us leaders wandered around the park and ended up playing badminton with some random children in one of the Olympic venues, so that was pretty cool. We kept our neckers on.

 

In the UK, no talk of dropping the necker, but some bemoan what they see as the death of the woggle (slide), with the friendship knot being a much more common sight these days. In fact, when HQ people are on telly doing media stuff they seem to always go with the friendship knot, which has lead some more cynical than I to create the label "woggleless wonders". Yes, they probably need to have a word with themselves.


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#26 qwazse

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 07:04 AM

If you went co-ed you should keep the necker so that girls can use them as headscarves and headbands to keep their mane of hair out of their eyes whilst doing stuff.  ;)  ....

hmmm ... Might work for several of our boys that way.
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#27 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 07:22 AM

Latin Scout,

 

But if you look at the ones whole troops wear, there are the limits I mentioned. BSA use to make a whole lot more of the Boy Scout neckers. The troop is one of the older troops in the council with a long history, and a very specific color scheme. That color scheme is no longer made by BSA. PLC decided to go with a similar color scheme. Guess what, national quit making that one too. We found out when we went to order the 2nd necker for some new Scouts, and was told they are no longer made. SM made a decision on the spot for the 3rd necker. When we got another group of new Scouts, we attempted to order  the 3rd necker from the local council, only to be told they are no longer made.  Some of the Scouts donated their neckers for the ceremony. That was when we went the custom route, and doing it ourselves instead of relying on national. Instead of Scouts wearing 3 different neckers, or none at all, we are making our own.

 

But looking online I just noticed the red with white imprint, the 3rd neckerchief, can still be ordered from national supply. All I can think is that the local council shop didn't want to be stuck with inventory that will be discontinued soon and they will be stuck with. 


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#28 RememberSchiff

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 07:33 AM

Wouldn't it be nice if Scouting Heritage MB had a requirement to explain the why of wearing a neckerchief and wear one for an activity or period of time? Does the merit badge pamphlet mention the neckerchief?


Edited by RememberSchiff, 01 March 2017 - 08:12 AM.

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#29 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 07:52 AM

Wouldn't it be nice if Scouting Heritage MB had a requirement to explain the why of wearing a neckerchief and wear a one for an activity or period of time? Does the merit badge pamphlet mention the neckerchief?

 

Agree, and no it does last I checked.

 

But the pamphlet also doesn't even mention "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt. Waite Phillips did a great thing giving Philmont to us. But not everyone goes there. Whereas every Scout and adult from 1929 until 1972, and then again from 1979 to 1989 had been affected by "Green Bar Bill" by reading his books, Boys' Life articles, and going through training he put together. IMHO Bill did a lot more than Phillips ever did.


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#30 RememberSchiff

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 08:23 AM

Agree, and no it does last I checked.

 

But the pamphlet also doesn't even mention "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt. Waite Phillips did a great thing giving Philmont to us. But not everyone goes there. Whereas every Scout and adult from 1929 until 1972, and then again from 1979 to 1989 had been affected by "Green Bar Bill" by reading his books, Boys' Life articles, and going through training he put together. IMHO Bill did a lot more than Phillips ever did.

Time for a major revision.


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#31 Stosh

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 08:39 AM

My boys use a custom made necker.  36" square, blaze orange, boys wear a black surged satin stitched border, the next patrol can have another color, and the adults wear white border.  No other markings on the neckers.  They are visible from one end of the camp to the other.  The boys use corresponding para-cord woggles.


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#32 blw2

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 08:49 AM

I still wear a real neckerchief, square of course. It is immensely functional as I often demonstrate on outings. Unfortunately, my troop currently has opted-out of neckerchiefs but I am trying a new approach - the necker as gear not as uniform. My fiendish plot starts with a wilderness survival campout which requires scouts to wear a neckerchief and use it during the weekend activities - water filtration, first aid, signalling.

 

My $0.02

I think an interesting twist to you plan might be to NOT require the necker....

instead, plan the events and challenges where the necker could be a useful tool, not in an obvious way, but very subtly....

plan it so that the scouts actually discover the idea for themsleves that a necker can be useful.  You might have one in your back pocket more as a bandana, and they might if they are being observant, see you using it to great utility to work through the problems.....

with the idea of letting THEM discover it.

 

......

I have two thoughts on them being uncool - when I was a cub, we wore our uniform to school on den meeting day.  Around here at least that just doesnt happen so the only times a Scouts friends might see him in uniform is when they're doing something around the community - scouting for food, or a parade  or service project.  At that point, I doubt it is the neckerchief that causes the teasing so much as the uniform in general.

 

The other thought is much more noble - rather than discard the necker (and eventually the uniform?) so kids dont get hassled for being uncool, I would rather put in the effort to make Scouting something that kids can be proud to be a part of.  A challenge for sure, but one that needs to happen to help ensure our survival.

I'm a proponent of the uniform.  Pretty much wear it through all of camp, even though "class b" might be the uniform of the day.

But

I think the underlying thing in what you wrote is huge.... focusing on making the scouting program something they are proud to be a part of...(& I would add something of value).  With that in mind, if we were to step back and look at the big picture, would it really be so bad if the uniform went away entirely?  I'm thinking as long as we are building character and the scouts are having fun, we are meeting the bigger goal, right?

 

Ditching the necker was seriously talked about in the UK in the late 90s as part of the big overhaul of uniform. They were kept in the end because the kids demanded it! The scouts themselves wear them with real pride at district and county events. There's always inter troop rivalry and the different colours of troop neckers helps reinforce that. From my perspective I like them as it helps distinguish my scouts from other troops at a distance.

Interesting!

I think that points to a natural desire for uniforming's sense of belonging and all of that.  It really isn't such a bad thing.....just a balance to find what works and what doesn't


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#33 Cambridgeskip

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 10:08 AM

Interesting!

I think that points to a natural desire for uniforming's sense of belonging and all of that.  It really isn't such a bad thing.....just a balance to find what works and what doesn't

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

I've always thought that one of the successes of scouting, what makes it more than just another youth club, is that it taps into a very basic human need to belong, something which is particularly strong among teenagers. The uniform taps into that. It gives a sense of belonging at multiple level, from the patrol through to an international one.


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#34 The Latin Scot

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 11:42 AM

I am never without my neckerchief. Since I am a Cub Scout leader, I wear the Adult Webelos Den Leader neckerchief, which is the crazy plaid number with gold trim. It isn't the most attractive item in the BSA wardrobe, but I am never without it, and the boys know it. Especially since they are Cubs, where the neckerchief is still required, I make sure to talk to them early about the usefulness and history of the neckerchief so that they simply expect to be wearing them when the bridge over in to the Scouting program. And since one of our traditions is for the New-Scout patrol to hand them their New-Scout patrol neckerchief when they bridge over, it takes them a long while to discover that wearing the necker is optional as a Boy Scout, nor do they want to give them up when they find out that it is. 

 

Starting them on the tradition while they are young Cubs is a huge part of getting it into their hearts and heads; luckily I am in a great position to do that as a Webelos leader.


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#35 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 05:55 PM

I collect neckers. I have some from all over the USA, as well as the UK and Canada. Last meeting as a TCDL, I was asked to come up with something about neckerchiefs and why they are used in Scouting.  I had a few on hand to demonstrate the various uses.  One of the other leaders commented that I need to wear the collection instead of the same one over and over. Great conversation starters. Had lots of tales regarding them.


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#36 ianwilkins

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 03:12 AM

My boys use a custom made necker.  36" square, blaze orange, boys wear a black surged satin stitched border, the next patrol can have another color, and the adults wear white border.  No other markings on the neckers.  They are visible from one end of the camp to the other.  The boys use corresponding para-cord woggles.

 

Assuming that "blaze" is USA speak for "dayglow", some wear those over here too, but go one step further and have a hi-vis reflective border sewn on to it. Yes, agreed, they certainly stand out! And useful when you are out and about in the dark.


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#37 qwazse

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 07:59 AM

Assuming that "blaze" is USA speak for "dayglow", some wear those over here too, but go one step further and have a hi-vis reflective border sewn on to it. Yes, agreed, they certainly stand out! And useful when you are out and about in the dark.

Unless, you are trying to capture your opponent's flag unseen!


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#38 Stosh

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 08:08 AM

Just put the necker on your dog and let him loose.  You'll have the flag in no time.


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#39 Gwaihir

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 01:43 PM

interesting article / opinion piece on neckerchiefs 

 

 

https://www.linkedin...ags-mike-walton


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#40 The Latin Scot

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 02:33 PM

Not a fan of the somewhat vulgar title, but a great article otherwise. We should be encouraging both the history and the wearing of neckerchiefs in our Troops. They really are one of the most visible emblems of Scouting.


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