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Problem DE


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#41 Ankylus

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 09:29 AM

I have asked this question before; So why do we need council? Our council does nothing for the established units except ask for money. I wish we could opt out of a council!

We stay becaus we love the program, despite council and the paid folks!

 

Our council (1) manages our 3 or 4 council camps, (2) maintains our 3 or 4 council camps, (3) provides training resources and opportunities for both adults and youth, (4) provides a useful interface with the national organization for the Eagle Scout application process, (5) helps manage maintain online advancement records, (6) supports the OA chapter with facilities and resources, (6) performs some useful dispute resolution services from time to time, (7) before 4/1, provided us tour permits that national required for our outings, (8) interfaces with other organizations (such as the Red Cross) to provide us with additional opportunities.

 

That's what pops off the top of my head.

 

But my council very well may not be representative in that we are the largest council in the country, and that gives us resources and opportunities that other smaller councils might not have.


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#42 TAHAWK

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 09:37 AM

They have said for decades that they exist to support the volunteer.   With exceptions, they believe, and operate as if, they are totally in charge.  I have seen written statements by SEs of that latter view.


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#43 Snow Owl

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 12:05 PM

Our council (1) manages our 3 or 4 council camps, (2) maintains our 3 or 4 council camps, (3) provides training resources and opportunities for both adults and youth, (4) provides a useful interface with the national organization for the Eagle Scout application process, (5) helps manage maintain online advancement records, (6) supports the OA chapter with facilities and resources, (6) performs some useful dispute resolution services from time to time, (7) before 4/1, provided us tour permits that national required for our outings, (8) interfaces with other organizations (such as the Red Cross) to provide us with additional opportunities.

 

That's what pops off the top of my head.

 

But my council very well may not be representative in that we are the largest council in the country, and that gives us resources and opportunities that other smaller councils might not have.

 

I would love to see our council do any of those things.

 

 

Our council is small and appears to be dying a slow painful death.  Member numbers are declining every year.  5,000 cub scouts, 1600 Boy Scouts and 100 Ventures.  We only have 80 troops in our entire council


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#44 Snow Owl

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 12:07 PM

They have said for decades that they exist to support the volunteer.   With exceptions, they believe, and operate as if, they are totally in charge.  I have seen written statements by SEs of that latter view.

 

Our newish SE told us it was his way or the highway. 


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#45 Back Pack

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 12:34 PM

Our newish SE told us it was his way or the highway.


Does he realize that he needs you to make his goals? What a moron.
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#46 Snow Owl

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 07:14 AM

Does he realize that he needs you to make his goals? What a moron.

 

He is spearheading a giant Scout Reach & Soccer for Scouts initiative (as in $260K!) and is only focused on new units and new scouts.  If the existing units are not part of the push, he has no interest in them.

 

He has a plan to make himself rise and shine with a huge growth in numbers.  The new Units and Scouts for the underserved markets, the council will pay their dues, buy their uniforms and provide para professionals to be the leaders (i.e. paid Pack & Troop leaders - not parent volunteers).  These units and Scouts will only exists while the money lasts, so maybe 2 years, then after he is moved up the ranks and gone, the majority of these subsidized units will fold.

 

Our council has been doing a much smaller version of this for years. ($60-$75K)  For one unit the council actually provided transportation to get the scouts to and from the meetings as well as covering ALL costs.  Once the funding /subsidized period ended, the unit, the scouts, and all the equipment was never seen again.


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#47 TAHAWK

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 08:07 AM

So much for Scouting Values.

 

But, then, someone else told him this was the goal to work towards and forget Boy Scouting.  He's just a Capo

in the mob.


Edited by TAHAWK, 06 April 2017 - 08:09 AM.

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#48 David CO

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 09:36 AM

So much for Scouting Values.

 

But, then, someone else told him this was the goal to work towards and forget Boy Scouting.  He's just a Capo

in the mob.

 

They all are.


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#49 ddubois

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 09:42 AM

Does this forum exist for the purpose of airing grievances, or for sharing actionable wisdom usable for the betterment of Scouting?


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#50 Col. Flagg

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 09:43 AM

He is spearheading a giant Scout Reach & Soccer for Scouts initiative (as in $260K!) and is only focused on new units and new scouts.  If the existing units are not part of the push, he has no interest in them.

 

Now I have heard of everything. Scouting should leave soccer coaching to those qualified to teach it. The last thing Scouting needs to be doing is getting involved in teaching/coaching soccer. They have a hard enough time developing decent training material for Scouting...and that's their profession.

 

Leave coaching to the USSF and local associations who are geared to train coaches and deliver a decent soccer program; especially in a soccer hot be like Seattle.


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#51 Col. Flagg

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 09:44 AM

Does this forum exist for the purpose of airing grievances, or for sharing actionable wisdom usable for the betterment of Scouting?

 

Both.

 

Rome won't change until the Visigoths tear down the corrupt infrastructure. 


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#52 oldisnewagain1

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 11:24 AM

Both.

 

Rome won't change until the Visigoths tear down the corrupt infrastructure. 

 

Well said


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#53 ddubois

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 11:56 AM

I would rather see experienced Scouters associated with high-functioning unit share their wisdom -- as Roundtable Commissioners, or Unit Commissioners, or New Unit Membership Chairs, or in whatever way they can that can reach the most units/boys -- so that other units can be high-functioning too.  I don't find complaining about some facet of their district or council on the forums to be productive, unless it's done specifically to somehow promote some improvement.  In my limited experience, most faults at the district level seem to be due to a lack of volunteers to staff it, or knowledge how to best serve the units, not due to maliciousness or criminal negligence.


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#54 Col. Flagg

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 12:03 PM

I would rather see experienced Scouters associated with high-functioning unit share their wisdom -- as Roundtable Commissioners, or Unit Commissioners, or New Unit Membership Chairs, or in whatever way they can that can reach the most units/boys -- so that other units can be high-functioning too.  I don't find complaining about some facet of their district or council on the forums to be productive, unless it's done specifically to somehow promote some improvement.  In my limited experience, most faults at the district level seem to be due to a lack of volunteers to staff it, or knowledge how to best serve the units, not due to maliciousness or criminal negligence.

 

This supposes that the other units are designed to function the same way as the successful unit. Just because we are all BSA units does not mean we all function the same way. THAT is the fundamental flaw in the whole notion of how districts continue to operate, and fail. They have this misplace notion of, "Well it worked for T321 so T456 can follow the same thing and succeed." It does not work like that.

 

You can throw as many volunteers at a problem as you want, but if you don't understand the root cause of the problem you are trying to fix -- AND understand that what solves the problem in one unit may not solve the problems of others -- you will never succeed.

 

One of the many problems with districts is that they don't understand this. They either 1) continue doing what they've always done, 2) try something that's worked in one place without understanding why it won't work in their area, or 3) are unwilling or unable to do a root cause analysis to find the problem AND develop a solution that can be targeted to each units' needs.


Edited by Col. Flagg, 06 April 2017 - 12:04 PM.

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#55 Stosh

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 12:34 PM

Does this forum exist for the purpose of airing grievances, or for sharing actionable wisdom usable for the betterment of Scouting?

 

Unfortunately someone's grievances need actionable wisdom in order to be usable for the betterment of Scouting. 

 

On the other hand, learning from other people's mistakes is far less painful, too.

 

It may sound like a lot of grousing, but in the 10+ years I've been around, it has been because of both the grousing and wisdom that I have learned a lot.

 

Yeah, tempers flare a bit here and there, but for the most part it is one of the better forums on the net.  Give it time to build up a callous thicker skin and you'll be able to see the bits and pieces of wisdom even in the expressions of grievances.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#56 David CO

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 12:53 PM

I would have thought that in a topic titled Problem DE, it would be obvious to everyone that there would be griping about the execs. 


Edited by David CO, 06 April 2017 - 01:02 PM.

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#57 Col. Flagg

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 01:59 PM

I would have thought that in a topic titled Problem DE, it would be obvious to everyone that there would be griping about the execs. 

 

They must have thought we were having issues with Delaware.  :blink:


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#58 TAHAWK

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 05:12 PM

They all are.

Not my experience.  There have been many who cared, even a few who stuck around.  One has climbed to rarefied heights, giving me hope.


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#59 TAHAWK

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 05:28 PM

Does this forum exist for the purpose of airing grievances, or for sharing actionable wisdom usable for the betterment of Scouting?

Why do you ask?  Are you shocked by "negative" tones?  If so, be prepared to be shocked again - here and in life in general.

 

We are all - all - mortal clay, imperfections and all.

 

I suggest that an unrealistic view of the operative values of others will tend to lead to even greater anger and frustration than a realistic view.  

 

If you really thought "they" meant all that stuff, what would your reaction be when the cases of beer came out at med-course at Scout camp?  If you were the Scribe, you probably stopped taking pictures.  Did you fall over in a faint?

 

We lost an SE to faking membership numbers in 1926, and an SE two back faked membership to the extent that his successor, not being willing to do such things, took a 30% year-over-year hit.  Ouch!

 

People with grievances come here.  Let's hear your proposed plan of operation with dealing with, say, the OP?

 

The final arbiters are the mods, a remarkable tolerant bunch, and toleration is also a value.


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#60 desertrat77

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 07:38 PM

In my limited experience, most faults at the district level seem to be due to a lack of volunteers to staff it, or knowledge how to best serve the units, not due to maliciousness or criminal negligence.

 

Lack of volunteers and/or knowledge are just two challenges districts may face.

 

As a career military guy, I've been in several districts.  Stick around long enough and you'll see plenty of malice and negligence (criminal or otherwise). 


Edited by desertrat77, 06 April 2017 - 07:54 PM.

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