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#1 Ridgerunner

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 06:59 PM

OK, I'm reticent to even consider bringing this up since our council has had MAJOR issues before and when a bad member of the previous professional staff was complained about for some unethical things said, the volunteers who reported him were immediately blackballed from having any position on anything with council and were told they wouldn't be "allowed" to volunteer anymore. 

OK, so now the present. 
We have a brand new, very young, DE who came in and seemed like he was going to be very motivated and good. After all, he was a eagle scout and had held various major leadership positions in his council and with national as a youth. 
Now, he's turned out to be a nightmare. 
He's unilaterally changed our yearly calendar since our district chair hasn't been able to make it to the last couple of committee meetings. When the leaders tried to slow it down by bringing up the fact that all the units made their schedules for the entire year last summer and this wasn't going to get alot of participation since there would inevitably be conflicts. He just blew everyone off with an air that "we are just grumpy parents and don't understand that he's in charge". 
Then, the calendar item of planning for next fall's roundups and school talks came up and he scheduled open houses for teh Packs on wed nights. One of the older leaders, politely, made the suggestion that we should look at a different night since many families go to church on Wed. Apparently this really peeved him, because he just made a "pfft" sound and rolled his eyes like it was the dumbest thing he's ever heard of. That's in addition to him telling another leader who was asked by the DE's superior to find a Charter Org for a new unit and after teh group asked teh volunteer to be the CR since he was already once for them, the DE told him that HE was going to pick the CR. 
Aside from this guy trying to run a side business while he's working as a DE, he's managed to alienate almost every member of the district committee through his regular passive-aggressive lecturing about how we need to change everything we do, because it's apparently not good enough. Or, at least, it isn't as good as the district he came here from which only had about 1/3 the membership. I've also had several parents make comments about how he "creeps them out" because he has this obviously fake and poorly executed used car salesman personality and smile. 
I'm seriously worried this guy is going to run off our only effective district committee in several years. But I'm also worried about making any concerns about him known to council since I have no clue how that will turn out. This guy is creepy and doesn't instill confidence in his ability to do much beyond treat the district like his own little dictatorship. 
Anyone ever had a problem with a DE that just needs to find a career elsewhere?  Suggestions? Thoughts?


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#2 David CO

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 03:53 PM

Welcome to the forum.

 

Did I understand you correctly?  Is there some other position in district/council abbreviated as CR, or are we talking about the unit's Chartered Organization Representative?

 

The IH is the only person who can appoint a Chartered Organization Representative. 


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#3 Col. Flagg

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 04:03 PM

I'm seriously worried this guy is going to run off our only effective district committee in several years. But I'm also worried about making any concerns about him known to council since I have no clue how that will turn out. This guy is creepy and doesn't instill confidence in his ability to do much beyond treat the district like his own little dictatorship. 
Anyone ever had a problem with a DE that just needs to find a career elsewhere?  Suggestions? Thoughts?

 

Let him do his thing. He will not make his numbers and they will find a job for him elsewhere. He seems too immature to realize that, in order for HIM to be successful, he needs to get the district volunteers, unit leaders and unit CORs on his side.

 

Give him the rope to hang himself. He will. Then you can mop up the mess when he's gone and start again.


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#4 qwazse

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 04:19 PM

BTW @Ridgerunner, welcome to the forums!

 

You're not gonna like this:

 

Call your SE and let him know things are a little rough with this one.

 

Worried about being blackballed from council? Get thicker skin.

Time off council committees is time you can spend hiking and camping independently with your mates, or the kids in your unit, or both. Let them know you'd welcome the favor.

 

Regarding the fellow personally -- in case you wind up having to endure him longer than you'd care to -- let him know every time he does any thing (no matter how small) right.  Be positive as possible. That's the only way you'll ever get a crack in the door to advise him on clearing the rotting fish from his shed. Assume that if you don't do it nobody else will.


Edited by qwazse, 01 March 2017 - 04:20 PM.

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#5 mgood777

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 04:32 PM

WOW.

Yes, IH appoints COR.

Lots of professional scouters believe they're in charge. Sometimes they need to be shown otherwise. At every level, district, council, area, regional, and national, there is a Key 3 of one professional and two volunteers. The three are (at least theoretically) equal - at the same level on the organisational flowchart. You need your District Chairman in this, or you need a new one. You also need the District Commissioner. District Chair should have a working relationship with the Council President. Sama goes for the District Commissioner with the Council Commissioner. If you're uncomfortable going over the DE's head to the Scout Executive, you could go around him through the commissioners or chairman/president for help.
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#6 desertrat77

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 05:15 PM

What Colonel Flagg said....

 

Let the DE fail.  

 

It's a given that he will.  Quickly too, I might add.

 

Re getting blackballed at council:  I learned many years ago if a council is going to engage in open warfare, hold grudges, or publicly mock or scorn unit level leaders, it's actually a blessing.   You now know to a certainty that the council gurus don't live by the oath or law.  Who wants to work with people like that?

 

Exactly.

 

You're better off as the third ASM in a local troop.  Or a committee member for a crew or pack.  You'll be happier and will contribute far to more to scouting than the nabobs down at the council office.


Edited by desertrat77, 01 March 2017 - 05:18 PM.

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#7 TAHAWK

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 05:40 PM

At least some DEs have been told in writing that they are is charge: "...to recruit, train and lead a staff of volunteers in your district."

 

I fear I would have smiled, told the DE "no," and acted accordingly.  In fact I did, and still lasted two more terms as District Chairman, during which period nine DEs passed throuh our district.   (They do come and go, as has been observed.)  We led the Council in every district metric all three years, including FOS (I did all the pitches, ditching the official script due to its, shall we say, difficulty with the truth.  A shame as the truth worked just fine.)   However, in the end, I did not retain the beloved "Good Scouter" designation.  See "Kowtow." 

 

They had no better luck with the DC, a Bird in the 107th Armored Cav. and duel PhD.  He ended up Scouting in Switzerland while working for the WHO.


Edited by TAHAWK, 01 March 2017 - 05:43 PM.

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#8 JosephMD

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 08:45 AM

DEs will come and go, you hate to see the good ones go, and you hate to see the bad ones go on to be someone else's problem.  District volunteers that has been around for more than a couple of years are used to this.

 

How is your district's FOS doing?  I think we all know that FOS and council pay checks are connected.  A DE that is working for the volunteers sure does make it easier for us to open our wallets doesn't it?


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#9 Col. Flagg

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 10:05 AM

DEs will come and go, you hate to see the good ones go, and you hate to see the bad ones go on to be someone else's problem.

 

Then Council should hire, track and evaluate their employees better. Personally I don't hate to see a bad DE go. I am doing a happy dance...and sending a note to the council or district he's going to in order to warn them about him/her. Otherwise, I am waving good bye and signing a song.


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#10 frankpalazzi

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 05:19 PM

Blackballed from Council??? OHH NOOO My widdle feewings are so hurt! Whoop dee doo, Edith. Whoop dee doo!

 

What's so important about a district or council position anyway?  Do what you feel is right and concentrate on YOUR boys.


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#11 Stosh

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 05:36 PM

I've been blackballed from 3 different districts.  :)  Love it!  The only time I have been approached by council on anything was to start a new troop using the boy led, patrol method as a "pilot program".

 

Took me 25+ years to get District Award of Merit because I never did anything for the district.  Finally they gave me credit for being a UC and MB counselor.  I just think it was because they didn't get any nominations that year.  :)


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#12 Back Pack

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 07:16 AM

How does one get black balled from district. Please PM me with instructions so I can get off their mailing list.
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#13 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 10:50 AM

How does one get black balled from district. Please PM me with instructions so I can get off their mailing list.

 

Aggravate the pros enough, and you will. I've been blackballed from council level because I pointed out problems and inconsistencies.

 

But you need to be careful. One volunteer ticked off the powers that be so badly, he had his membership revoked.  That really ticked off the volunteers in my district. When those folks left, the volunteers threw a party.


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"Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt


#14 desertrat77

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 04:45 PM

How does one get black balled from district. Please PM me with instructions so I can get off their mailing list.

 

 These tend to work:

 

- Persistently refuse to take Woodbadge

- Continually steer discussions back to "how does this impact the units?"

- As Eagle 94 said, point out discrepancies

- Be a bona fide outdoorsman/woman

- Decline to donate to FOS due to exceptionally poor council support/respect for units (and tell them exactly that)

- Do not support MB fairs

- Treat district/council staff with respect, but do so on a peer/peer level, fellow scouter to fellow scouter

 

I'm thankful to say that the district I'm in now is great.  We've got our issues, but the scouting spirit is prevalent with all, and everything they do is with a view of helping the units thrive.  


Edited by desertrat77, 03 March 2017 - 04:52 PM.

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#15 Col. Flagg

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 05:00 PM

 These tend to work:

 

- Persistently refuse to take Woodbadge Check

- Continually steer discussions back to "how does this impact the units?" Check

- As Eagle 94 said, point out discrepancies Check

- Be a bona fide outdoorsman/woman Check

- Decline to donate to FOS due to exceptionally poor council support/respect for units (and tell them exactly that) Check

- Do not support MB fairs Check

- Treat district/council staff with respect, but do so on a peer/peer level, fellow scouter to fellow scouter Check

 

Darn it! I must be doing something wrong!


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#16 Stosh

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 08:38 PM

:)  I had one DE that came on board and viewed herself as God's gift to the Scouting program.  I never said Aye, Yes or No to her, but worked really hard on my "THE LOOK".  It must have worked because after she left she did come back and they had some gathering that she attended.  I didn't need to use THE LOOK anymore and did my normal hang out, goof off and relax for the event mode.  She told me she was totally blown away by my "change".  She said that when she was DE she was terrified of me.  I asked her if I had ever threatened her.  She said no.  How about say something inappropriate?  No.  What was it then.  She said it was the way I just looked at her.  :)  Dang I got talent!  It worked.  She never considered asking me to do anything on the district level!


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#17 Stosh

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 08:40 PM

Darn it! I must be doing something wrong!

 

Have you read the book THE PETER PRINCIPLE?  Go back over the chapter on "Creative Incompetence".   It really does work.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#18 SSScout

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 09:01 PM

Once upon a time at a camporee, I was caught under a dining fly with a new DE during a torrential downpour.  In the ensuing conversation, I found out he was assigned to a neighboring District, but owing to our present lack of DE in our own, he was assigned to "cover" ours.   I asked him if he could come to a Committee meeting of a new, struggling Unit to "meet the troops" and "wave the flag"  for us. After he heard the location and sponsoring org, he responded that " Oh, I have people to do that. I'll tell them to visit."  (end of discussion). His "people" , it turned out , were the other Commissioners I worked with, so they told me later, when he called and TOLD them to go visit this "problem" unit (not merely troubled, as I had said).

He  was not a DE in about six months.  


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#19 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 09:12 AM

SSScout's story reminds me of  2 new DEs in my council growing up. We had 3 brand new, straight out of college DEs who were told by the SE that they needed to go through the OA Ordeal. They show up, and go through the Pre-Ordeal ceremony. When they found out what was expected of them, 2 said the heck with it and left. The third one underwent the Ordeal.  Monday morning all three were called into the SE's office. The new Arrowman was congratulated, given some OA related item from the and left. The other two were immediately fired.


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"Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt


#20 Col. Flagg

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 10:10 AM

SSScout's story reminds me of  2 new DEs in my council growing up. We had 3 brand new, straight out of college DEs who were told by the SE that they needed to go through the OA Ordeal.


Well, maybe if the OA insisted on the camping requirement being met for district and council staff they wouldn't have that problem. I mean, it *is* supposed to encourage continued participation in Scouting and camping. Waive the camping and you simply have guys who work for your company. They might not even exhibit the Oath and Law.


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