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Eagle BOR and A Non-Rechartered Unit


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#1 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 04:14 PM

Curious as to what issues folks have seen occur when a Scout passed his Eagle BOR while the troop's charter lapsed?

 

Long story short, troop still has not turned in the charter, it was due December 31st, and the Life Scout passed last week. From the district commish, the SM is ignoring phone calls, emails, etc and the COR/CC are basically non existant with the unit, only on paper, so they cannot help.

 

I'm concerned for this Eagle in particular, but also all of the Scouts in the troop.


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#2 Stosh

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 04:42 PM

Boys aren't to be punished because of the neglect of the adults.  It is no fault of the scout the unit's leadership didn't fulfill it's responsibilities. 


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#3 SSScout

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 07:34 PM

This will fall to the Council.  The Eagle and family will end up being disappointed by National's  attitude:  No charter, no advancement.  Period.

 

It will be a "disputed" Eagle... Sad but true.   No fees paid, no paperwork filled out, charter, no unit.


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#4 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 08:13 PM

While I know BSA won't punish the Scout for the adults mistakes, seen that first hand, I wanted to know how it will be handled.

 

My understanding is that if the charter is turned in by closing time on Tuesday the 28th, it's in the grace period, and everything gets done OK.  If not, it;s lie it is a new unit, and nothing done Since December 31st counts, including the Eagle Board.


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#5 NJCubScouter

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 09:16 PM

This page says there is no longer any grace period: http://www.scouting....4_business.aspx
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#6 qwazse

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 10:18 PM

IMHO, retroactively transfer the scout to another troop.
Otherwise, have your registrar contact National regarding how to move the boy forward,
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#7 Stosh

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 08:26 AM

Question here!!!  What's the age of the boy??  Is this a 16 year old or an 17.9 year old boy?  Can he register now in a current troop and just do his EBOR over again for "technicality" sake?  Even if all the requirements were done before the end of the year, a BOR can be held after to determine the rank.  Register as a Venturing crew member and go for the EBOR.


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#8 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 10:43 AM

Age is 16-17. No crews in the district at this time. As to transferring to another troop, I do not see that as a option as this is the troop that has issues with everyone else (I found out it's not just my troop and me the SM doesn't like, but I am public enemy #1 for him).


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#9 EmberMike

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 11:08 AM

Age is 16-17. No crews in the district at this time. As to transferring to another troop, I do not see that as a option as this is the troop that has issues with everyone else (I found out it's not just my troop and me the SM doesn't like, but I am public enemy #1 for him).

 

 

Just want to see if I've got this right... The SM is running a troop that has a lapsed charter, and he refuses to do anything about it (fix the problem or communicate with district at all). He also holds a grudge against you, and seemingly with any other troop around, and that causes concern about transferring the boy elsewhere. Is this all correct?

 

If so, this seems like a council issue to me. Unless the troop can resolve the charter issue or recharter soon, and then fairly quickly set up a new EBOR (assuming the 1st is indeed invalid because of when it took place). This kid shouldn't be stuck in limbo waiting for a charter problem to be resolved and be held at the mercy of an SM who seems reluctant to move this process along at all. I'd seek help with council. 


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#10 Stosh

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 11:20 AM

Why is anyone worried about this troop and it's SM?  They don't exist!  End of discussion.  Get the boys registered in any other troop in the mean time, get his EBOR and then when the dust settles, get him a permanent troop/crew if he so chooses.


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#11 qwazse

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 11:42 AM

Age is 16-17. No crews in the district at this time. As to transferring to another troop, I do not see that as a option as this is the troop that has issues with everyone else (I found out it's not just my troop and me the SM doesn't like, but I am public enemy #1 for him).

A boy's transfer has nothing to do with his previous troop. If there's an SM who will have the kid, and someone ponies up the $1 and the paperwork, it's a done deal.

 

The EBoR is a done deal. National is probably already processing the paperwork. Your council registrar should make a few phone calls explaining the situation just to be sure this boy's recognition won't be held up by some poor management.

 

The reason for the transfer is to get the scout out of a toxic situation and into the hands of someone who will responsibly handle any materials that come his way. This sounds like a boy who has been isolated from council, and doesn't have any "friends in high places" like a lodge advisor. So, he needs to know that someone he can relate to has his back ... maybe someone who will help him exercise some more leadership and work toward a palm or two.

 

This allows the original SM time to focus on getting his charter together without worrying about this scouts bling floating around in some bureaucratic nether-world.

 

This is important, because if you all can't get this SM back on track, you'll have a troop full of boys to deal with. For anything but Eagle, the essential paperwork is backed up in the boys' books. So if the boys know you didn't let Eagle paperwork slip, they can be confident that you'll keep their advancement on track if they have to jump troops to maintain their registration.

 

I wish someone told my brother this when his SM went AWOL 60 years ago. The thought of hoofing over to the troop on the other side of town to ask a different SM to help him wrap up his trail to Eagle was completely foreign to him.


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#12 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 01:00 PM

@EmberMike ,

 

Correct. Anyone who has ever "stole" his Scouts is on his (expletive deleted) list. And several troops are on it as a result. I'm #1 on the list because I "betrayed the troop"  when I didn't force my oldest son into the troop

 

@qwazse,

 

this is the leader who thinks he knows it all and will not listen to anyone's advice. Many have tried to help him, and they either died, got frustrated enough to say the heck with it, or they get on his (expletive deleted) list.

 

@Stosh,

 

Part of the problem is that I do not think anyone in the troop realizes the situation except for the new ASM, and that was because I asked him about the recharter. He will view any attempt to help his scouts as "trying to steal them." Yes it's toxic IMHO, but most of the folks in the troop like its "high speed, low drag" approach to advancement. with the exception of the three new guys from my wife's webelos den, everyone is Life or Eagle.


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#13 qwazse

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 01:18 PM

I figured, he match your other backstories. Still can't see how that matters. The guy's imploding his troop. One boy's hard work and a BoR's time might get lost in the shuffle. (I don't think it's gonna be voided. You won't need do-overs. Just paperwork and kits to chase.) Being a little pro-active could save some grief. It could also get this guy cussing an even bluer streak than normal.

 

All I'm saying is I have a brother for whom it would have been a big deal if someone didn't care about getting on some wayward SM's (expletive deleted) list and helped him to continue scouting and at least wrap up that Eagle.


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#14 perdidochas

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 01:36 PM

Curious as to what issues folks have seen occur when a Scout passed his Eagle BOR while the troop's charter lapsed?

 

Long story short, troop still has not turned in the charter, it was due December 31st, and the Life Scout passed last week. From the district commish, the SM is ignoring phone calls, emails, etc and the COR/CC are basically non existant with the unit, only on paper, so they cannot help.

 

I'm concerned for this Eagle in particular, but also all of the Scouts in the troop.

Locally, I know at least two boys that were in that situation (their Troop disbanded, right as they were at the cusp of Eagle).  The Council let them finish what they needed to finish without a Troop. 


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#15 Col. Flagg

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 03:12 PM

Age is 16-17. No crews in the district at this time. As to transferring to another troop, I do not see that as a option as this is the troop that has issues with everyone else (I found out it's not just my troop and me the SM doesn't like, but I am public enemy #1 for him).

 

Have you looked in to Lone Scout? Registers with council.

 

The GTA provides for the scout to have his BOR upheld since the problem was not due to any fault of the scout.


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#16 Stosh

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 04:42 PM

Have you looked in to Lone Scout? Registers with council.

 

The GTA provides for the scout to have his BOR upheld since the problem was not due to any fault of the scout.

 

Lone Scout dynamics are different and Councils tend to not want to get involved with it. Register him in any troop in the district.  He is officially a registered scout.  He doesn't need to go to any meetings, activities or even meet with the SM.  I have had Webelos cross-overs disappear faster than the ink on the registration.  BUT he's official for one year.  End of discussion.  He needs signatures from whom?  SM?  Nope he already has an EBOR, all he needs do is walk into the room and have the EBOR members initial their signatures and change the date.  We're done.  He has reached the Eagle rank, any celebrations can be done by the parents who plan the party anyway.

 

It's easy to overlook a 1 month lapse in membership when it is know that the reason for it is the ineptitude of adults.  If the boy wants to go back to his original troop?  $1 will get him the transfer.  At 16 and the keys to the car he can pick and chose any troop he wants.  "Much ado about nothing."


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#17 Col. Flagg

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 05:00 PM

Lone Scout dynamics are different and Councils tend to not want to get involved with it. Register him in any troop in the district.  He is officially a registered scout.  He doesn't need to go to any meetings, activities or even meet with the SM.  I have had Webelos cross-overs disappear faster than the ink on the registration.  BUT he's official for one year.  End of discussion.  He needs signatures from whom?  SM?  Nope he already has an EBOR, all he needs do is walk into the room and have the EBOR members initial their signatures and change the date.  We're done.  He has reached the Eagle rank, any celebrations can be done by the parents who plan the party anyway.

 

It's easy to overlook a 1 month lapse in membership when it is know that the reason for it is the ineptitude of adults.  If the boy wants to go back to his original troop?  $1 will get him the transfer.  At 16 and the keys to the car he can pick and chose any troop he wants.  "Much ado about nothing."

 

Finding a troop to do that might be a challenge. 


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#18 Stosh

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 05:38 PM

Finding a troop to do that might be a challenge. 

 

Okay, you're a SM of a troop rather close.  Eagle candidate comes and says his troop has lost its charter can he joint to get his Eagle/  So he signs up with the troop and never comes back.  How is that any different than the eagle scout that gets the rank and then disappears and never comes back?  Looks like a horse apiece.  What's it that you as SM are out?  Nothing but one more dead-wood name on your roster. 

 

On the other hand the scout with the problem back home just might find the friendliness of the SM sufficient to check it out and as an Eagle might be something the new troop would appreciate the boy sticking around.  It could just as easily go that way as to the other.  For me it would be a chance worth taking.  After all being friendly and helpful on my part is the only part I'm responsible for when all is said and done.  I have no problem doing my part.  I don't judge MY actions on what I think MIGHT BE the actions of another.


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#19 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 05:43 PM

Finding troop would not be a matter for the Scout. Most folks around here have the same mentality: we want a Scout to find a troop that fits his needs, and don't care where he goes as long as he stays in the program. Whether it's another troop, a crew ( when we have one), or even an Explorer post. Especially since there are 2 other troops within 3 miles of the "lapsed" troop.


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#20 Stosh

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 05:55 PM

So then there shouldn't be any challenges to getting his needs met.


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Stosh

 

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