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Blue and Gold, and Lions


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#1 Appliancedude

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 12:37 AM

Howdy all.  So, my pack is one that is participating in the lion program.  Frankly I gotta say I'm not impressed.  The little Lions really get the short end of the stick.  They get no awards other than silly little stickers, they don't get to race at the pinewood derby (even though we chose to let them anyways). 

 

Anyways, our Blue and Gold is next weekend.  I'd really like to do something for the little guys.  Anyone have any ideas on what we can do for them?  How have you (those that are participating in the program) incorporated them more into the pack?

 

 

Thanks

Dan


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#2 Stosh

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 07:57 AM

This kinda reminds me of what privates in the Banana Republic armies wear on their shirt.  :)

 

I haven't worked with that age youth in the past, but I would start out with going down to the schools and interviewing kindergarten teachers as to what kids of that age would appreciate.  Maybe it's a little token to set on their desk, a lion of some sort with a ribbon on it, I dunno, I'm just guessing.  It would do one well to actually go and check with people who work with these kids on a daily basis.  Maybe it's just a certificate of accomplishment that they can throw away or tape to their bedroom wall, but at least for a few moments they can get up in front of everyone, get "something" and be recognized like the other boys.

 

Just some random thoughts, hope it helps.


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#3 MattR

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 09:28 AM

How about a lion themed patch? I'm sure there are lion patrol patches you can order online.

 

Sock puppet lions? It's something they can play with, which is all they probably want anyway.

 

Or maybe a lion themed helium balloon. Just call it a really big patch and it will be just like the big kids.


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#4 Eagledad

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 10:06 AM

I miss the Tiger T-shirts. Parents (moms) did away with them because they felt t-shirts made the Tigers look exclusive to the rest of the pack. But the boys liked them because they looked cool for their age, and they could wear them anytime since they didn't look like a uniform.

Barry
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#5 JosephMD

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 10:30 AM

My wife is the CC of a pack and didn't participate in the Lion pilot.  One of the main reasons was that the council instructed pilot packs not to deviate from the Lion pilot program and leaving the Lions out of so many pack activities didn't sit well with the committee. 


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#6 bearess

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 10:56 AM

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the stickers. I'm a den leader for Lions, and I taught elementary school for ten years. Kids that age love stickers. My Lions are very proud of them and look forward to receiving them. The whole BSA system for recognition is really just giving kids a small token to recognize an accomplishment- belt loops, patches, pins, stickers. It's all the same!
At our Blue and Gold I gave each of my Lions a pin with a Lion on it to wear on their shirts or jackets. They love it, and it's free recruitment- we've picked up one new member in less than a month as a result! They also know they're working towards their Lion badge in the spring.
We've also decided to let Lions participate in the Derby- they're racing in their own class. I can't think of any other Pack event they'd be excluded from??
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#7 fred johnson

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 12:48 PM

My wife is the CC of a pack and didn't participate in the Lion pilot.  One of the main reasons was that the council instructed pilot packs not to deviate from the Lion pilot program and leaving the Lions out of so many pack activities didn't sit well with the committee. 

 

Yeah ... I'm betting most packs deviate big time.  Most packs treat all dens the same.  All racing in the derby.  All at pack camp outs.  All at *****.  Because of how packs are run, dens become dependent on big pack activities.  Big monthly meetings.  Big pack outings.  Big pack events.  

 

There is no law saying packs have to have a pinewood derby.  IMHO, it might be best if the pinewood derby became something reserved for 3rd & 4th graders.  Our district holds a district pinewood derby.  IMHO, it might be best to just encourage wolves and bears to go to the district race.  Encourage the Webelos to go to the district Webelos woods.  Encourage the district to hold a zoo day or something else for the K & 1st graders.  

 

When packs hold events, you really need to invite everyone pack.  To not invite certain ages is just not good and most packs will still invite them. 

 

===============

 

But do you have the choice to not participate anymore?  The councils I know that have lions advertise for every pack to have it.  And if your pack does not have one, then they will route the interested lions from your school to another pack.  That will then hurt your recruitment the next year and split your school between packs.  


Edited by fred johnson, 24 February 2017 - 12:49 PM.

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#8 EmberMike

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 01:28 PM

Anyone have any ideas on what we can do for them?  How have you (those that are participating in the program) incorporated them more into the pack?

 

 

The Baden-Powell Service Association has a Chipmunk program, comparable to the Lion program in BSA. It's unofficial in BPSA, so parents often create their own methods and structure. They even created an unofficial Chipmunk handbook. 

 

They use a Chipmunk patch that is actually a BSA Patrol patch. So if you want a lion patch, maybe look for an existing BSA Lion Patrol patch that you can get for the kids. 


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#9 NJCubScouter

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 01:36 PM

The Baden-Powell Service Association has a Chipmunk program, comparable to the Lion program in BSA. It's unofficial in BPSA, so parents often create their own methods and structure. They even created an unofficial Chipmunk handbook. 

 

They use a Chipmunk patch that is actually a BSA Patrol patch. So if you want a lion patch, maybe look for an existing BSA Lion Patrol patch that you can get for the kids. 

 

Let me guess, the Chipmunks' den chief is named Alvin and the den leader is named Dave.

 

Sorry.


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#10 Appliancedude

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 04:00 PM

We've also decided to let Lions participate in the Derby- they're racing in their own class. I can't think of any other Pack event they'd be excluded from??

Lions are not supposed to camp with the pack, do any fundraising, or shooting sports.  Shooting sports I get, but they don't get to sell camp cards? Or go on pack campouts? 


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#11 Appliancedude

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 04:01 PM

Thanks guys.  I'm gonna try and find something for the little guys before next weekend. 


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#12 bearess

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 06:33 AM

I can't imagine Lions are beating down the doors to sell camp cards!!
I think the pack camping and Pinewood issues need to be revisited, and I've provided that feedback to National. It's also important, though, to remember just how variable kids at that age are- lots of kinder boys are just not ready to camp, especially if it isn't something they are used to. A fun day event is much more their speed.
I understand that some may feel this means they aren't ready for Cubs, but that's a whole other discussion!
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#13 Stosh

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 08:53 AM

The Lion's program is intended to increase sagging membership.  Elementary kids don't want a bunch of kindergarteners hanging around so BSA doesn't encourage them to really participate in the full program.  Even Tigers are too young.  Boys at this age are very class level focused and are not interested with kids not of their class.  It isn't until adulthood that ages don't matter as much.  A little of it occurs at the high school level, but even then mom and dad don't like their freshman daughter hanging around senior boys.

 

I always tease my wife about trading her in a newer model, but then in all seriousness, who wants to go through the changing diapers and hauling around toddlers when one is 66 years of age?  Occasionally as Grandpa I can handle it, but 24/7 is out of the question.

 

There are far more negatives to this idea of Lions and Tigers than all the hoopala that is going around about it.  Lions and Tigers should be their own program, designed for their age appropriate interests, not part of the Cub program.  This is why we have Venturing, not many high schoolers really want to hang out with elementary and junior high kids.


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Stosh

 

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#14 bearess

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 11:28 AM

LOL. My boyfriend is 19 years older than me- we occasionally joke about the point when our age gap became OK. 38 and 57? Fine, who cares. 15 and 34? Eeewwww.
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#15 Fehler

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 10:53 AM

3/4 of the boys in our Lion Den are younger brothers of wolves/bears/webelos.  The parents do not want a separate organization, that meets separately on a different night/location.


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#16 Appliancedude

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 09:50 AM

3/4 of the boys in our Lion Den are younger brothers of wolves/bears/webelos.  The parents do not want a separate organization, that meets separately on a different night/location.


That's our case as well. Ok 50%.
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