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Patrol Yell for Coyote Patrol


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#1 ShutterbugMom

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 07:03 AM

Our Webelo 2s are officially crossing over this weekend and have voted to be coyote patrol, however, they cannot come up with a short patrol cheer that everyone likes.  Any suggestions?  I've google searched and found a few funny ones that 10 year olds shouldn't use, but nothing else catchy.  Thanks!


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#2 RememberSchiff

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 07:24 AM

Relax, have a seat, a cup of coffee, and let your scouts figure out what sound the Coyotes make.


Edited by RememberSchiff, 21 February 2017 - 07:24 AM.

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#3 Stosh

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 07:25 AM

Unless they know the reason for the yell, what's the point?  In all my years of Scouting no one has been able to have a patrol yell for any other reason than for meeting a useless requirement.


Edited by Stosh, 21 February 2017 - 07:26 AM.

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#4 qwazse

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 09:11 AM

Not your problem. Make it clear that it's not your problem. They either fix it or be the umpteenth patrol in this country who never settled on a yell.

 

If they want to get unstuck, have them try this ...

Go to the library, check out Hank, The Cow Dog series (in paper or audio books), enjoy the story or fast forward to where Hank encounters coyotes, pick a really cool line from the coyote characters, convert it to a yell.

 

But let me re-emphasize: not your problem to solve.  Like @Stosh says, it may not even be a problem. The boys may call the SM/SPL about how often their troop uses patrol yells. If they do, ask the SPL on an older scout to pay your boys a visit. If they don't, well, there you have it.

 

Finally, there's nothing saying they can't have a multi-part yell: one for the morning, one for the evening, one for when they brush their teeth ...

 

Real coyotes certainly know how to mix it up. They've been driving us campers nuts ever since they've been reintroduced to WPa.


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#5 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 10:51 AM

As others have said, not your problem.

 

Three things you need to memorize if you will have anything to do with Boy Scouts.

 

1: "Have you asked your patrol leader?"

 

2: "Not my problem."

 

3: ' Where's the coffee ( hot cocoa for our LDS brethen)?"


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"Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt


#6 craig.noah

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 04:33 PM

Yep.  I'll repeat what others have said: "Not your problem".  Also, likely not a problem.  However, I have been in more than one troop where each patrol gave their patrol yell as they were sitting down to eat.  It was a source of competition to see who would be ready first and last.  It's also a great way to announce the patrol's presence at an event, but very few do.


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#7 Col. Flagg

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 04:50 PM

q2hK8Da.jpg


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#8 Adamcp

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 08:34 PM

"Ring-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding!
Gering-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding!
Gering-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding!"

"Wa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pow!
Wa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pow!
Wa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pow!"

"Hatee-hatee-hatee-ho!
Hatee-hatee-hatee-ho!
Hatee-hatee-hatee-ho!"

"Joff-tchoff-tchoffo-tchoffo-tchoff!
Tchoff-tchoff-tchoffo-tchoffo-tchoff!
Joff-tchoff-tchoffo-tchoffo-tchoff!"

Oh wait. That is what the Fox says, not the Coyote. Carry on.

(Sorry, could not help myself.)
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#9 ShutterbugMom

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 09:08 PM

Wow.  That was really not helpful and kind of mean spirited to be honest.  I'm sorry I asked.

 

There are 4 of them moving as a patrol and they have been arguing among themselves for several weeks about the best patrol yell.  I thought if I had a few fresh ideas for them maybe they could all agree and get started on the right foot.

 

And FYI our troop patrols use their yell at the end of every meeting.


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#10 desertrat77

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 09:17 PM

Wow.  That was really not helpful and kind of mean spirited to be honest.  I'm sorry I asked.

 

There are 4 of them moving as a patrol and they have been arguing among themselves for several weeks about the best patrol yell.  I thought if I had a few fresh ideas for them maybe they could all agree and get started on the right foot.

 

And FYI our troop patrols use their yell at the end of every meeting.

As the others have already stated, figuring out the yell is strictly the scouts' business. 

 

If the troop patrols use their yell at the end of a meeting, the new Yell-less Coyotes will figure out one pretty darn quick when it's their turn and they are standing around staring at each other.   A good lesson in motivation.

 

Their patrol, their yell.   Fresh ideas need to come from the patrol.


Edited by desertrat77, 21 February 2017 - 09:33 PM.

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#11 Stosh

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 09:27 PM

Wow.  That was really not helpful and kind of mean spirited to be honest.  I'm sorry I asked.

 

There are 4 of them moving as a patrol and they have been arguing among themselves for several weeks about the best patrol yell.  I thought if I had a few fresh ideas for them maybe they could all agree and get started on the right foot.

 

And FYI our troop patrols use their yell at the end of every meeting.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that what is happening with this patrol is no different than every other patrol ever formed.  I have my boys still fighting over the patrol yell and they've been a patrol for almost a year now.  Someday they will figure it out or they don't get TF rank.  :)  It's up to them, it's the most basic form of group dynamic on the planet, how to come to a consensus.  If the PL dictates, that's not a consensus and there will be discord, if they get past this, the next challenge will be easier and each one of them after that.  The real reason for this requirement is the first step in team building and creating a team of their own. 

 

I think the advice is well given and not with any animosity in the process.  Boy led takes a bit of stepping back, grab some coffee and watch some good things happen in the mean time.  Problem solving is a skill all the boys need to learn as they develop.  It's not a bad thing to let them work it out on their own.

 

By the way, the historical reason (which everyone really no longer understands) was the patrol yell was the means by which a PL could call his patrol together and form up.  View it as a vocal bugle call.  Same for the patrol yell.  Whenever the PL wanted his patrol to gather, he would wave the patrol flag and give the yell.  The boys then have a visual and an audible reference point to gather at.  This process allows the PL to gather up his boys without having to run all over camp looking for them.  My PL;s in my former troop  would gather their boys up with flag and yell, quick inspection of uniform and then march in with the flags for the opening flags.  If a patrol had something they needed to do together, the PL would flag and yell and the boys would come running.  That's how it is supposed to work.

 

For longer distances where the voice would not carry, the job of the bugler was to do the same thing long range.  Each patrol has their own ditty (series of recognizable notes) and then the bugle call.  If the SPL needed the Coyotes back in camp for some reason, he could play the ditty and then assembly and the patrol would follow the bugle call to wherever the bugler was.  If the SPL only wanted the PL to report back to camp, he did the patrol ditty then played Officer's Call.  Historically it was a really effective system for boys that were out and about and the troop officers could call back patrols or patrol leadership with a simple bugle call.  It is quite surprising how far away a bugle can be heard.

 

So maybe a brief history of the flag and yell would go a long way to help the boys understand the importance of the flag and yell so that it can be used in a more mature manner other than just trying to get first in line at the mess hall.  To me the patrol yell has a more serious side to it than the joke it's become in today's troops.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#12 Stosh

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 09:40 PM

Unless they know the reason for the yell, what's the point?  In all my years of Scouting no one has been able to have a patrol yell for any other reason than for meeting a useless requirement.

 

Okay 2 gave me green arrows and 2 gave me red arrows.  Sounds like something to look into.

 

Care to explain WHY this requirement is all that important?  I can give historical reasons (back in the good old days, when Stosh was a kid kinda thing), but Hey People, lets get scouting into the 21st Century.  Why are we using such arcane requirements when we have cell phones that could easily do better, ya' know, STEM stuff an' all.

 

Maybe the Coyotes could have some words of wisdom from the forum on why they have to have a yell at all.  If they thought it all that important they might actually come up with one rather quickly.

 

If it wasn't for some troop "rule" or camp "tradition" the boys would never do a patrol yell on their own, right?


Edited by Stosh, 21 February 2017 - 09:42 PM.

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#13 desertrat77

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 09:46 PM

Okay 2 gave me green arrows and 2 gave me red arrows.  Sounds like something to look into.

 

Care to explain WHY this requirement is all that important?  I can give historical reasons (back in the good old days, when Stosh was a kid kinda thing), but Hey People, lets get scouting into the 21st Century.  Why are we using such arcane requirements when we have cell phones that could easily do better, ya' know, STEM stuff an' all.

 

Maybe the Coyotes could have some words of wisdom from the forum on why they have to have a yell at all.  If they thought it all that important they might actually come up with one rather quickly.

 

If it wasn't for some troop "rule" or camp "tradition" the boys would never do a patrol yell on their own, right?

I'm not sure why it's important, aside from heritage.   Team building too.

 

Practically speaking, the best yells tend to be the odd-ball stuff that a patrol will concoct on their own, and everyone else is in stitches laughing every time they hear it.


Edited by desertrat77, 21 February 2017 - 09:47 PM.

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#14 Stosh

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 09:52 PM

Yet some of the best patrol yells I have heard from my boys sounded something like this "Hey Troop 77 Ravens, FALL IN!"  It worked just fine.  Oh, and by the way, they used it all the time, not just when someone in authority told them to parrot it back to them when promoted.


Edited by Stosh, 21 February 2017 - 09:53 PM.

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#15 Chadamus

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 12:19 AM

@ShutterbugMom I'm confused as to your role. Your first post led me to believe your involvement was in a Pack of Cubs preparing to crossover into Boys Scouts. Then you mention your Troop patrols use their yells at the end of every meeting. The "mean spirited" responses you've received have been from Scouters who are involved with Boys, not Cubs. Thus the oft repeated (and appropriate) message of "let the Scouts figure it out." When I was a Cub leader I could see having a similar reaction to such responses. As an ASM of a Troop, not at all. Two different animals entirely. Parent led vs boy led. (Ideally!)

 

@Stosh I felt your first response was a 'lil dismissive. Well explained comment regarding the history of the patrol yell in your second however. Up arrow'd. So if you're still keeping score, you're even good sir.  :) (Our patrols don't use yells btw.)


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#16 T2Eagle

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 08:02 AM

Here's a suggestion for them.  

 

We love xbox,

We love xbox,

Yay, xbox!

 

Is that one you might come up with?  Does it seem like a good Coyote patrol yell?  That's OK, you're not in the patrol, and you're not responsible for the patrol.

 

The point almost everyone here was trying to make is that these four boys could certainly reach consensus on what xbox game to play --- because they see it's in their interest to do so.  Hopefully, they'll be going camping next month and doing their own meal planning, they'll reach a consensus about what to eat --- because they'll see it's in their interest to do so.  They'll come up with a patrol yell --- when they decide it's in their interest to do so. Likely they'll go through several yells before they really settle on one, probably parroting versions of yells that they hear from the other patrols.  And if they don't, that's OK, you're not in the patrol, and you're not responsible for the patrol, some of the older boys, who are responsible for them, will help them hammer out some sort of compromise, that's the point of being a Boy Scout.

 

One of the hardest transitions in scouting is for adults going from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts.  It's been your job for probably five years to make sure that they get done what they need to get done.  Abruptly this weekend that changes, it's now your scouts' job to be responsible for their accomplishments.  They won't do all the same things at the same time, they won't get all their advancement together, they won't be having your guidance to make it all happen.  

 

But it should be great for them, so as everyone else said, relax, have a cup of coffee, and sit back and watch.  It actually will be more fun for you too.


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#17 Eagledad

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 08:13 AM

Arrows? I don't need no stinking arrows.

 

Barry


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"Experience is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first, then the lesson."


#18 blw2

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 08:15 AM

Unless they know the reason for the yell, what's the point?  In all my years of Scouting no one has been able to have a patrol yell for any other reason than for meeting a useless requirement.

 

exactly right.

When we come together at camporee, and again at summer camp, for morning flags....

we do the troop yell thing at "flags"

Some troops really get into it, ours doesn't.  I think it would be great if they did.... I think it would be more fun than the scouts know to have and to show a little troop pride.

but I have NEVER seen anyone do any sort of patrol yell.

I really think it could be so much more fun than the scouts even know to have some patrol spirit.... & I think if patrol spirit was fostered more, the patrol method would be used better to its potential....

 

OK historian Stosh, a question?.... did ever in the past they have a practice of calling role when the troop comes together....just like they do for troops at summer camp before flag opening?  So that at the opening of the troop meeting..... the SPL says "is the Coyote Patrol present?"....

   If so, THEN there would be a reason for a yell.

         I can even imagine using it when the troop comes together at summer camp or camporee.... instead of a "troop yell", it's each patrol sounding off in sequence.


Edited by blw2, 22 February 2017 - 08:16 AM.

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#19 RememberSchiff

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 08:46 AM

It takes adults to make the simple, complex. :(


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#20 Stosh

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 08:53 AM

 

@Stosh I felt your first response was a 'lil dismissive. Well explained comment regarding the history of the patrol yell in your second however. Up arrow'd. So if you're still keeping score, you're even good sir.  :) (Our patrols don't use yells btw.)

 

Looking back I guess it may at first appear to be dismissive, but in fact, I was trying to get across how useless the functionality of the requirement has become.  I would dearly love to see the requirement go back to it's original usage and be something that benefits the espirit-de-corps for the boys.  If used properly, I think it can be not only a helpful tool, but something the boys would enjoy.  The way it is viewed today is nothing more than an extra "requirement" for advancement that means nothing of value to the boys, like say, maybe the Buddy System is where boys pair up and take care of each other.  That makes sense.  A patrol yell to parrot back to adults doesn't.

 

As far as "keeping score" goes.  I don't worry about that.  I just use the up and down arrows to gauge the comments I am making on the forum.  2 up and 2 down indicates to me a strong division, maybe something to pursue further, thus the added historical background from which I come from.  I do wish that those that arrow up or down, follow up with comments in response rather than just a hit-and-run either way. 

 

 


 


OK historian Stosh, a question?.... did ever in the past they have a practice of calling role when the troop comes together....just like they do for troops at summer camp before flag opening?  

 

Yes, the patrol yell gathered the boys together.  After they were bunched up, there is no need for the Yell.  Obvious, why is anyone yelling when everyone's standing next to you?  The patrol yell was a short distance communication tool in and around camp.  The longer distant communication was the responsibility of the bugler.  It is similar to the troop bugle calls.  REVEILLE is the morning wake up call.  One will notice it is the longest of all the calls because by the time the bugler got to the last note, the soldier/scout was to be out of bed and standing in line for morning roll call.  Then there is the ASSEMBLY call, this is the long range troop call that functions exactly the same as the short distance patrol yell.  Once they are all formed up, inspected and ready to go they wait for the TO THE COLOR call which then they march to the parade field as a troop of patrols  This practice of communication and directives is how communication was done with large numbers of men.  "Back then" they didn't have cell phones and email with a distribution list to get everyone gathered up.  :).  Along with the yell, there's the patrol flag.  I hear my PL giving the yell, and one looks in the general location through sound directive, but that could be a pretty wide area.  The guy waving the flag, a visual communication tool.  Is it OUR patrol flag or some other PL's patrol flag?  I recognize my own and I now know that I am being summoned and where to find the gathering point.  Kinda like RALLY ON THE FLAG call.  Which Flag?  If all the PL's are yelling Rally on the flag, it's kinda useless.  But if they give the patrol yell, they know which flag to rally to.  :)

 

So that at the opening of the troop meeting..... the SPL says "is the Coyote Patrol present?"....

   If so, THEN there would be a reason for a yell.

 

At a general meeting where everyone is already gathered, the SPL takes a patrol roll. and the PL simply calls out, Coyote Patrol, all present (he's taken a patrol roll) OR (not AND) accounted for, meaning those not there are excused.  No need for everyone to be yelling.  An important piece of information from PL to SPL should not be interrupted with a lot of yelling. 

 

         I can even imagine using it when the troop comes together at summer camp or camporee.... instead of a "troop yell", it's each patrol sounding off in sequence.

 

In an ideal world, the camps should be using the patrol method and yes, the roll of units at morning and evening flags should be done by patrol as a patrol roll call, but the PL would again, being in close proximity, should give the patrol roll answer, "Coyote Patrol all present or accounted for".  If the PL report doesn't go it tells the group, a patrol is missing or worse yet, "Coyote Patrol, present, one member unaccounted for."  Now it gets exciting.  The benefits of the system far out-weigh the boys all standing around yelling about who gets to go first in the chow line.

 

I am very "dismissive" of how the requirement is being used today.  Functionally it is nothing more than a time to make jokes with a "catchy" campfire style skit yell.  I would like to see it being used as it was intended to be so that it can become a useful tool once more for the boys instead of something to laugh about.  It has its basis in the military and yes it sounds a bit military, but it is a quick and efficient way to gather the patrol, gather the troop, get to the parade field, give a brief accounting status of membership in the camp and get on to chow with the least amount of goofing around.  One would think that a quick roll call of the boys before each meal would be functionally more appropriate than who goes first.


Edited by Stosh, 22 February 2017 - 08:59 AM.

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