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Seriously? It has come to this?


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#21 SSScout

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 10:29 AM

Scouting is an  easy target, I guess.   We can google and read about the theft of Christmas trees, Troop trailers,  SUVs on campouts with Scout gear inside,  money from Girl Scout cookie sales, money from Boy Scout popcorn sales, gear from Troop Scout Huts,  "welcome to the big city". 

 

Everyone else does not live by the Scout Law and Promise. Doesn't mean we should abandon them as our ideals. Set the example, be the role model....


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#22 EmberMike

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 10:32 AM

You know what left will say if we had gun co from this would t happen. That's the excuse every time a gun is used.

 

I'm part of "the left", and I wouldn't say that. I don't think you understand what "the left" wants in terms of gun control. 

 

We already have gun control, too, so I don't quite understand your statement about "if we had gun co". 


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#23 Lurking...

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 02:55 PM

One could drop all the "gun control" laws in our country and it wouldn't make one iota of difference.  The bad guys will have the same guns to commit crimes and the law abiding people will still have guns to protect themselves.  In this area especially, laws are irrelevant.


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#24 TAHAWK

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 05:11 PM

It would be more accurate to say that every time we have a publicized shooting, the left asks for more laws controlling access to firearms.  The "flavor of the week" in that regard is the semi-automatic rifle, used in a statistically minority number of shootings, incorrectly called an "assault rifle."  Not that assault rifles - magazine-fed fully automatic rifles - are not in civilian hands in trivial numbers (Automatic weapons are considered machineguns subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act.).  Two or three legally-owned fully automatic weapons have been used in homicides since 1934 so far as I can find.  Further, the last time I can document one being used intentionally in a crime in the U.S. (as opposed to Sweden or Syria)  was the incident in North Hollywood where the two armed bank robbers with full body armor and actual AK-47s took on the police. https://en.wikipedia...lywood_shootout

 

A Columbus, Ohio policeman illegally used a fully-automatic .30 carbine to kill an unresisting burglary suspect in the late 1960's and received no punishment beyond a brief suspension from duty.


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#25 Back Pack

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 09:06 PM

I'm part of "the left", and I wouldn't say that. I don't think you understand what "the left" wants in terms of gun control. 
 
We already have gun control, too, so I don't quite understand your statement about "if we had gun co".


Magazine regulation. Reduction of hand gun availability. Just two of several left platforms regarding gun control.
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#26 Lurking...

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 09:45 PM

I have a military assault rifle in my closet as I write.  It was a mainstay of a war that more Americans were killed than all the other wars combined.  It's an 1853 Enfield rifle musket.  Now that single shot rifle is not even considered by the ATF as a "weapon".  However, it will put a .58 caliber round out that is bigger than today's sniper rifle.  I also have a Mosin-Nagant, the primary weapon used by Russian forces from the late 1800's through the Vietnam era when it was replaced by the AK-47.  Mosin-Nagan fired a 7.62 x 54 round.  The AK-47 fires a 7.62 x 36 which means it's the same bullet but the AK-47 has less impact.  The only gun in the world today that fires a 7.62 x 54 is the modern Russian sniper rifle.  The Finnish woman sniper who holds the world record for efficiency in the field used an un-scoped Mosin-Nagant.  Of course my WW I Turkish Mauser which fires an 8mm round is in the same case as the rest.  Now, The lethality of those guns is greater per round than any modern "assault" rifle of today used by our military.  What's magazine capacity have to do with the fact that one only needs one bullet to do the work.  Yes an AK-47 can fire in full automatic like a machine gun.  But those are illegal for anyone other than police and military to posses.  But criminals don't care.  The notorious Tommy Gun made famous by the mobs of Chicago back in the 20's used a 45 cal bullet, like the ones in most modern semi-automatic handguns of today.  Sub-machine guns use pistol ammunition.  I conceal carry a 9mm handgun that has 17 rounds in the gun and a second magazine with another 17 rounds.  That's a lot of firepower.  No one knows I carry that much firepower under a coat and I do it legally with the blessing of the government. 

 

What people don't realize is that the only part of the gun that is lethal is the bullet.  Studies have shown that on full automatic, only the first round is aimed at the target.  Because of recoil all subsequent bulltets go high.  The military has found that they are far more effective leaving their guns on semi-automatic.  Semi-automatic rifles are the same ones that 80% of the hunters out in the woods are using to deer hunt.  Take the stock off change it out to look like a hunting rifle and it's totally legal.  Leave it looking like a military assault rifle, and it's not.  Go figure, the mechanics and bullets are just the same. 

 

The #1 hunting rifle today is the 30-06, it's the same round as the M1-Garrand the primary rifle used by the US Infantry in WW II, and the Israeli Uzi uses the same bullets as the gun I have on my night stand.  I've fired an Uzi, my Smith and Western semi-automatic is the gun I want if needed.

 

"Gun Control" is nothing more than political speak to get guns out of the hands of people.  It works on those who are law abiding, but has no effect those that don't care.

 

By the way, the Girl Scout in the picture has a modern US Army sniper rifle, 50 cal and yes, it's a bolt action gun, just like the Russian Mosin-Nagant and German Mauser.  It's not the gun that needs controlling, it's the people using them.

 

And yes, my wife was a Girl Scout, she carries a 9mm, too.


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#27 TAHAWK

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 10:58 PM

Fill out a form.  Pass the background check,. Pay a $200.00 fee, and you too can own an actual assault rifle - fully automatic, like the FAL that uses a round as powerful as the 30-06, the Browning .30 cal. Machine Gun, or the M-2 cal. .50 Heavy Machine Gun.  

 

I can't imagine the cost - like burning $100s as fast as you can.


Edited by TAHAWK, 24 February 2017 - 11:08 PM.

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#28 David CO

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 12:58 AM



Saint Trinian's?

Edited by David CO, 25 February 2017 - 01:10 AM.

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#29 Lurking...

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 08:07 AM

What people don't realize is that guns are not controlled by laws, but by people.  How effective they are makes the difference.  A criminal is generally better self-trained in the use of his weapon than the average conceal carry permit holder.  They are obsessed with weapons and train constantly and have the mind-set to use them against other people, The law-abiding citizen does not, his mindset is only to protect.  Both those characteristics still places the advantage with the criminal.  The only deterrent is the self-preservation.  The only thing that will cause the criminal to not use his weapon is if the target of his attention could in turn cause him harm.  If he holds all the cards, there is nothing for him to consider.  If the victim could possibly be able to resist with the same force he/she has, then there is reason to reconsider.  This is why schools and movie theaters, banks, and such are easy targets.  If a bank is a no-gun law and armed guards, it's not a good target.  If the school has armed teachers, that might be a problem too.  Why do people run from the police?  It's because they are armed, probably better trained and have more firepower than they do.  Not a good choice to take on the police with a gun in one's hand.  What if there was a big question mark on every victim instead of a bull's-eye?  Now one is into controlling criminals by altering their ability to choose.  If one does it only with laws, the choice is easy,  They have the guns and all the fear of citizen retaliation is off the table.


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#30 Lurking...

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 08:16 AM

This reminds me of the cute story I heard a few years ago.

 

An elderly lady was driving down the street (at speed limit) and was impeding faster traffic.  A police officer pulls her over and asks for her driver's license, registration and proof-of-insurance.  She says she's has a conceal carry permit and there's a .45 cal in her glove box.  The officer says he'll need to see her permit, too.  She then says her driver's license and permit are in her purse, but there's a 9mm in there.  By now the officer is really perplexed and asks if there are any other guns in the car and she says yes, there's a .357 magnum under the front seat, too.  Totally amazed he says, Lady, what in the world are you afraid of?" to which she answered, "Absolutely nothing, Officer."


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#31 Lurking...

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 08:29 AM

Fill out a form.  Pass the background check,. Pay a $200.00 fee, and you too can own an actual assault rifle - fully automatic, like the FAL that uses a round as powerful as the 30-06, the Browning .30 cal. Machine Gun, or the M-2 cal. .50 Heavy Machine Gun.  

 

I can't imagine the cost - like burning $100s as fast as you can.

 

It also makes it kinda hard to conceal carry those guns.  The most powerful handgun on the market is a .44 magnum, and that is one huge piece of weaponry not even criminals want to haul around.    The six round, black powder, .45 cal dragoon pistol (think Colt Walker, when you ran out of guns, it could still be used as a club) and the 9 round black powder, .42 cal with a .60 cal shotgun chamber (think 20 gauge) handguns were not worn on the belt during the Civil War.  They were too heavy, they horse carried the gun in a holster on the saddle.  Today's hand guns are  meant to be discrete and not many people have horses to haul around their guns.  :).


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#32 TAHAWK

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 11:25 AM

Things have changed since "Dirty Harry."  

 

Currently the "champ" is the .500 Smith and Wesson Magnum. Standard is "only" 2600 ft. lbs of muzzle energy ($1.50- $2.590 per boom) , but some (sane?) have souped it up to over 3000 ft. lbs of muzzle energy and nearly 2000fps -- significantly greater than the standard .30-06 ball (2429 ft. lbs.).

 

Then we have the .480 Ruger and .475 Linebaugh, both of which exceed the .454 Casull by a wide margin.  Then the poor 'lil .44 Magnum (1649 ft. lbs. +p+).   All manner of videos of shooters being hit in the face with their handgun on discharge.  

 

Seems to be a silly game that has exceeded all practical limits.  

 

Meanwhile, on the streets of Chicago. the "Modified One-Hand Head-Tip Gangsta Grip":

Gangsta_zpsisaf4hof.png


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#33 Lurking...

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 12:05 PM

Seriously, @TAHAWK how come you know so much about large handguns?  Do you have a crease in your forehead, too?  :)


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#34 Lurking...

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 12:10 PM

Seriously, @TAHAWK how come you know so much about large handguns?  Do you have a crease in your forehead, too?  :)

 

 

I was out target practicing with a buddy who had a Thompson Center Fire with exchangeable calibers.  He had me shoot the .22.  It was no big deal.  Them he switched over to .36 cal.  Oh, kinda hefty.  Then the .38 cal.  Okay we/re getting serious.  Then the .45 cal.  Impressive but needed 2 hands and locked elbows.  Then we went a bit smaller, with more powder.  .357 magnum.  Okay, we're really serious now.  .44 magnum.  Ouch.  then he said, how's about going really small to the 30-06?  That's where my crease came in.  All with the same gun!  That's the reason for the shoulder when shooting a long-gun and the reason 8 gauge shotguns are fired off the thigh.


Edited by Stosh, 25 February 2017 - 12:12 PM.

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#35 TAHAWK

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 12:15 PM

I have been told I have a hole in my head - never a crease.


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