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Running a Frontier Girls program concurrent with a Cub Scout Pack


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#21 David CO

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:27 PM

I guess I am "stupid" too.  We chartered a Boy Scout Troop way back before BSA provided insurance coverage. 


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#22 Stosh

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:29 PM

Churches' ministry often times do it without regards to whether or not they have insurance.  :)  As well as it should be.  I've done a lot of stupid things over the course of the past 66 years.


Edited by Stosh, 17 February 2017 - 08:30 PM.

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#23 Bugeyes

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 07:58 PM

My CO has a pack, troop and crew that are operating with an American Heritage Girls troop as a sister unit. Finances for all units are separate, but operate under the same CO at the same time. There is a lot of crossover for both programs. We hold meetings separately, but join together for events and service projects. My girls are also part of coed BSA programs, one being a pilot program based on Venturing but for middle school ages (which I am associate advisor for). We have a lot of interest in my district for trying something similar for Cub ages. My pack also started up the first Lions den in my council because we need something for kinder boys. We were just going to offer our our own church program alongside the Cubs- and eventually garnered council support.
As far as YPT concerns in a coed group, the BSA has already tackled that. Match regulations for Venturing- a leader of each gender for every time 2 deep leadership is required, and buddy groups of three in a mixed gender group or of 2 in a same gender group.
As for insurance- let's don't be silly. FG is likely to have their own type of coverage. If not, then the CO is (like in a church- where offering different ministries to boys and girls at the same time is nothing new.)
My advice as a program planner across different platforms: find where the programs have parallels. Where policies don't match up, go with the most stringent policy.
Congratulations for thinking outside of the box and trying something new. Don't be daunted by the naysayers!
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#24 Stosh

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 08:01 AM

First of all welcome to the forum, glad you're with us.

 

http://frontiergirlsclubs.com/faqs/

 

This is a link directly to the Frontier Girl's website with Frequently asked Questions and Answers.

 

#5 indicates there is no liability insurance provided and leaders are encouraged to rely on their homeowner's insurance or find chartering organizations that have insurance policies in place.  I would check that out carefully.  There is no provision for youth accident insurance and again if they are hurt during an event, and the girl has no insurance, that's unfortunate.  The organization itself doesn't back up it's leadership, problems are to be dealt with as an individual leader or if the chartering organization has insurance, what they back up is up to their policy.

 

#14 indicates no background checks or YPT provided.  This whole process is pushed to the troop owners and if it happens to be a handful of parents, it's up to them to make the checks and provide the training.  If the troop owners don't do it, then any problems in this area are the responsibility of the individual and their insurance.

 

This organization basically sells a program curriculum that people who pay for it and membership have access to.


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#25 David CO

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 02:08 PM

Pete said that the FS girls would have a different CO.

 

The Cub Scout unit's CO might have insurance to cover the girls at meetings, as visitors, but I doubt that it would apply to any outings conducted off the CO's property.


Edited by David CO, 19 February 2017 - 02:28 PM.

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#26 qwazse

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 03:35 PM

So, there were these young-adult scouts who were sent out to determine the suitability of a permanent site for an up-and-coming program. (Let's call it the dirty dozen patrol.) They took their good old time, looked into available land, water quality, food service, and were generally discrete about the whole process. Basically the usual planning and preparation, and a true First-Class adventure.

When the dirty dozen returned to their unit, they gave a a thorough report. The land was awesome! Plenty of sites to choose from. Good water. Great food ripe for picking. (They even had samples to prove it.) Everything was up to spec. However, the majority report was pessimistic. Staking claim would require constant wrangling with existing owners, and they had some big guns on their side. Two scouts in the minority report said, basically, "Come on guys, we can take them! The time is right. You know we can do this! It's exactly what you've been wanting!" Well the unit as a whole was in no mood for a fight, in spite of their current digs not being anything near National Camp School standards, so they went with the majority report.

Nobody remembers the names of the ten scouts who succeeded in swaying their unit to keep the status quo. But the scouts with the minority report, Joshua and Caleb, grudgingly went along in their crappy camp selection .... They did however commit their time to teaching first-years how to take on Giants. So, that in due time they had a unit full of patrols who were ripe to occupy new territory and out maneuver the bigguns. (As a side note, one of the patrols formed a band with a crazy good horn section ... "The Shofars" I think they were called ... their gigs had a reputation for bringing down the house.)

So CP, you may indeed be stupid. But, you could still be right. Let us know what you desire to do about it.

Edited by qwazse, 19 February 2017 - 03:35 PM.

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#27 Cubmaster Pete

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 07:11 PM

Pete said that the FS girls would have a different CO.

 

The Cub Scout unit's CO might have insurance to cover the girls at meetings, as visitors, but I doubt that it would apply to any outings conducted off the CO's property.

 

At the moment, pack meetings are NOT at our CO facility, it's not big enough or conducive for what we need to do. We utilize a local church hall for our pack meetings, they have welcomed us with open arms and have been very supportive.

 

That being said, the CO for our FG troop would be the church that the pack already meets at.......

 

I enjoy the CO for the pack (and troop) as they have been VERY financially supportive of both units.


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#28 bearess

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 09:04 AM

You briefly mentioned not wanting to go the Girl Scout route. Why is that?
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#29 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 10:37 AM

@Bugeyes,

 

1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   :D

 

2) You said, "My girls are also part of coed BSA programs, one being a pilot program based on Venturing but for middle school ages (which I am associate advisor for). We have a lot of interest in my district for trying something similar for Cub ages."

 

Could you giove some specifics on the pilot?  As you can guess, there is a lot of interest in it.


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#30 Cubmaster Pete

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 05:51 PM

You briefly mentioned not wanting to go the Girl Scout route. Why is that?

 

It appeared that the FG program was going to be more flexible, and avoid the whole cookie mess which we are not into getting involved in. 


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#31 Cubmaster Pete

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 05:51 PM

 My girls are also part of coed BSA programs, one being a pilot program based on Venturing but for middle school ages (which I am associate advisor for). We have a lot of interest in my district for trying something similar for Cub ages. 

 

I would like to know more about that too. PM me if you can!


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#32 Bugeyes

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 06:35 PM

A church should have insurance to cover it's children's ministries. That policy will usually require background checks on adults. However, my experience has been that churches tend to be under-prepared in the YPT department. It would be a simple matter to decide that your own policy will require background checks and YPT. You do not have to be BSA registered in order to take YPT. Anyone can do it.

About the pilot program: it is an Explorer Club and part of "Learning for Life". This seems to be the avenue BSA takes to test new programs. I'm pretty sure the Lions went this way, and I think that's also how Stem Scouts is working.

Our program was planned using the Boy Scouts curriculum and incorporating elements from Venturing. We've had some older Venture scouts assisting and mentoring. In the beginning, things were more scout led with the older Ventures leading the younger Explorers. Now, they have mostly moved on to college. Evidently, there are 5 new units in the big city to our north that have taken off- maybe from what we started. Not sure if they're using the program planning we developed or not. It was shared with our district exec. so he may have shared it on up the line.

We started out with a good size group, but girls have moved and our numbers are dwindling. We do have a lot of interest so plan on doing some big recruitment efforts to get the word out this spring.
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#33 Cubmaster Pete

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 06:20 PM

About the pilot program: it is an Explorer Club and part of "Learning for Life". This seems to be the avenue BSA takes to test new programs. I'm pretty sure the Lions went this way, and I think that's also how Stem Scouts is working.

Our program was planned using the Boy Scouts curriculum and incorporating elements from Venturing. We've had some older Venture scouts assisting and mentoring. In the beginning, things were more scout led with the older Ventures leading the younger Explorers. Now, they have mostly moved on to college. Evidently, there are 5 new units in the big city to our north that have taken off- maybe from what we started. Not sure if they're using the program planning we developed or not. It was shared with our district exec. so he may have shared it on up the line.

 

 

 

Ok so you used Boy Scout program in LFL then, and that was acceptable. Got it.


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#34 Bugeyes

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 02:28 AM

I'm not sure I understand your question, but the curriculum was rewritten with the boy scout and venturing programs as a framework. Advancement and everything are all new that were come up with specifically for this unit. Our advancement more closely resembles that for venturing.
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#35 Bugeyes

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 02:37 AM

We were given the OK, as far as copyright goes to incorporate content from BSA publications. We operate within our council pretty much like a crew, but with boy scout age specific guidelines. We have a different shirt supplier for a new color from other programs- but use the normal council patches,worldcrest, etc.., our own unit numerals, and Explorer position patches.
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#36 Cubmaster Pete

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 08:29 PM

OK and update to where my unit is in this process...

 

We decided to start a FG troop (a group of parents that are associated with the pack) We are working on getting the CO lined up. We are going to have FG meetings separate from the pack, but join up for most pack events (pack meetings, etc...) Den meetings would not be combined. I think that this is a better option.

 

Other than den meeting environment, the program we offer would be pretty much co-ed


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#37 Bugeyes

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 04:19 AM

Good luck! I'm sure your units will do well.
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#38 Stosh

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 07:23 AM

As safety consultant Hap Pigsley notes, that out of every 330 times someone does something of questionable safety, they can get away with it 300 times.  But 29 times out of 330 there will be injury, and according to the odds, 1 time will result in death.  At the seminar he taught he then handed out of large jar of what looked like Tootsie Rolls.  He said, "There are 330 pieces in that jar. 300 are really Tootsie rolls, 29 are going to make someone really sick, and one piece in there will actually kill you.  Help yourself if you wish."   He then went on to say in all the years of doing safety seminars, he has never had anyone take a piece out of the jar.

 

Best of luck on the program.


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#39 Bugeyes

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 12:32 AM

Well, that's why we're taught not to take candy from strangers. :)
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#40 Stosh

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 01:03 PM

There's more danger out there than just candy from strangers.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)





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