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Who is "Unit Leadership"?


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#1 beaglelover

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 03:48 PM

Ok, trying to figure out who qualifies under the term "Unit Leadersihp".  Is it just Cubmaster & Assistant CM?  Does it include DLs?  Does it include Pack Committee?  Having a had time finding a definition who fits under that category, can anybody help?


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#2 qwazse

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 03:53 PM

This chart is as good as any http://www.scouting....ut/ThePack.aspx.


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#3 beaglelover

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 03:58 PM

This chart is as good as any http://www.scouting....ut/ThePack.aspx.

 

I don't quite understand, if everyone on there unit leadership??

 

Basically, I am trying to figure out if the COR can also be a Assistant DL, Assistant CM, and a Committee Member at the same time.  The definition says he cannot be unit leadership or assistant unit leadership.  Trying to figure out what that is.


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#4 Stosh

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 04:04 PM

My guess would be SM/ASM for a Troop and CM/ACM for a Pack, with SM and CM as the unit leader


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#5 David CO

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 04:13 PM

I don't quite understand, if everyone on there unit leadership??

 

Basically, I am trying to figure out if the COR can also be a Assistant DL, Assistant CM, and a Committee Member at the same time.  The definition says he cannot be unit leadership or assistant unit leadership.  Trying to figure out what that is.

 

When I became an IH, I was told that the IH is the only person who is allowed to serve in more than one position in a unit. He/she can serve as IH and in one leadership position.

 

It makes sense to me that a scout leader should only be allowed to serve in one position in a unit.  Otherwise, a leader could be his/her own supervisor.


Edited by David CO, 15 February 2017 - 04:29 PM.

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#6 Col. Flagg

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 04:15 PM

I don't quite understand, if everyone on there unit leadership??

 

Basically, I am trying to figure out if the COR can also be a Assistant DL, Assistant CM, and a Committee Member at the same time.  The definition says he cannot be unit leadership or assistant unit leadership.  Trying to figure out what that is.

 

I wouldn't think they could hold another Key 3 role.

 

In a small unit you almost cannot avoid wearing more than one hat, so I would think DL would be okay. Best to ask your district.


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#7 beaglelover

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 04:34 PM

When I became an IH, I was told that the IH is the only person who is allowed to serve in more than one position in a unit. He/she can serve as IH and in one leadership position.

 

Well, we are blowing that one out of the water, not sure there is a single committee member that doesn't also do something else.  Also, what qualifies as small?  I think we have 35-40 between all the dens.


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#8 NJCubScouter

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 04:51 PM

A CR can also be either Committee Chair or a Committee Member.

 

Other than that, a CR cannot hold ANY other position, or what some people call the "uniformed" positions, including Scoutmaster, Cubmaster, Den Leader, Crew Advisor and Assistants to all of the above.  (I put "uniformed" in quotes because I too have a uniform, with a Committee Member patch on it, though I wear it mainly on "special occasions".  But I have heard many people use "uniformed leaders" to refer to anyone who is not a CC or MC.)

 

That does not mean that you will never see a CR being an "unofficial" Den Leader, for example.  We had that in our Cub pack, where the CO was a PTA-type organization and the CR was usually a person who was both an officer of the CO and had a son in the pack.  That person might, in practice, "double" as a DL or ADL, but could not be registered that way.


Edited by NJCubScouter, 15 February 2017 - 04:53 PM.

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#9 CalicoPenn

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 04:56 PM

Unit Leader = Cubmaster, Scoutmaster, Coach, Advisor and Skipper - or their assistants.

 

Den and Assistant Den leaders are not Unit Leaders - they don't lead the unit, they lead a section of the unit.

 

Committee Members are not Unit Leaders - they don't lead the Unit - they provide support to the Unit.


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#10 jjlash

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 07:30 AM


The BSA Adult application says:

 

No one may register in more than one position in the same unit, except the chartered organization representative (CR) (who can multiple only as the committee chairman (CC) or a committee member (MC)), and the parent coordinator (PC), who may multiple as chartered organization representative.

 

http://www.scouting....pdf/524-501.pdf


Edited by jjlash, 16 February 2017 - 08:17 AM.

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#11 fred johnson

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 08:43 AM

Unit Leader = Cubmaster, Scoutmaster, Coach, Advisor and Skipper - or their assistants.

 

Den and Assistant Den leaders are not Unit Leaders - they don't lead the unit, they lead a section of the unit.

 

Committee Members are not Unit Leaders - they don't lead the Unit - they provide support to the Unit.

 

Calico is right.  The EXACT term "Unit Leader" is used because BSA has multiple programs and they need a single term for the adult scout leader.  BSA documents such as advancement reports and merit badge cards refer to "Unit Leader".  It is used because advancement can be worked by scouts in a troop, team, crew or venturing.  So, there is no single term for the adult leader across all these types of units.  Boy Scout camps will often say "unit leader" as the camp has troops, crews, teams and venturing present.  

 

The "Unit leader" may choose to delegate some authority to their assistants, but that is their choice.  It is not automatic.  Assistants are NOT automatically the "unit leader" ... though it's usually not that big of a deal.  

 

"Unit Leader" is confusing because it is NOT the person at the top of the authority diagram.  The unit leader reports to the committee chair.  The CC reports to the charter org rep.  The COR reports to the charter org executive officer.  


Edited by fred johnson, 16 February 2017 - 08:58 AM.

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#12 fred johnson

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 09:03 AM

I don't quite understand, if everyone on there unit leadership??

Basically, I am trying to figure out if the COR can also be a Assistant DL, Assistant CM, and a Committee Member at the same time. The definition says he cannot be unit leadership or assistant unit leadership. Trying to figure out what that is.

The BSA Adult application says:
 
No one may register in more than one position in the same unit, except the chartered organization representative (CR) (who can multiple only as the committee chairman (CC) or a committee member (MC)), and the parent coordinator (PC), who may multiple as chartered organization representative.
 
http://www.scouting....pdf/524-501.pdf



I mistakenly marked jjlash down. He is right in the further clarification of the question. The idea is that unit leaders (those that work with scouts) are not also overseeing the program. That is why you want committee members, the CC and the COR to not be allocated to work with the scouts. The idea is they are helping improve the program and fix issues. But that is hard to do if they are in the trenches working with the scouts.

 

In reality, the lines get crossed all the time.  Put the person in their position that best matches their role.  Then support them in fulfilling that role.  If they do more, great.  Just make sure their assigned role is well covered.  


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#13 SSScout

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 09:36 AM

""The Work Is Done By Whoever Shows Up.""

 

BSA is well known  in it's ability to ignore it's own guidelines if it means the Unit is up and chartered.   "Some ink on every line"  is the mantra I am told to repeat in times of chartering.   

It is certainly advisable and desirable to have Active  leadership  listed , rather than merely space holders on the applications.   Who approves?  Who is willing?   I have known folks to come to me and say, "I never said I'd do that."  when it is discovered that their name is in a slot.   

 

What is desired, as has been noted, is that the Uniformed, Youth overseeing positions should not also be the "civilian"  overseeing positions.  But then too,   we all tend to have more than one hat hung on the Scout closet door rack, don't we? 


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#14 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 09:59 AM

Maybe because they do not have to fill out an application for their position, but the IH can also in a second, or these two other specific positions: COR and CC or MC.

 

I believe Scoutparent is no longer allowed.


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#15 gumbymaster

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 01:26 PM

I expect the military model is a little at play here as well.

 

Since technically the COR can remove any other adult leader in the unit at an time for any reason (or no reason), it makes it difficult for a CM/SM to have a COR who is also an ACM/ASM because then technically your assistant is your boss - not a good work dynamic.


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#16 blw2

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 02:12 PM

I wouldn't think they could hold another Key 3 role.

 

In a small unit you almost cannot avoid wearing more than one hat, so I would think DL would be okay. Best to ask your district.

ha ha.. mid sized units too.  when I was CM, I also wore the hat (even though other names were on the roster) of CC, ACM, and at least two of the other MC positions


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#17 Col. Flagg

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:34 PM

Maybe because they do not have to fill out an application for their position, but the IH can also in a second, or these two other specific positions: COR and CC or MC.

 

I believe Scoutparent is no longer allowed.

 

Anyone on the charter needs an application, no? Either Scouter, MBC or Committee Member. Scout Parent has been gone a few years.

 

If you fill out a Committee Member application you don't need to put down a role (e.g., treasurer, events, etc.).

 

I think @CalicoPenn has it right. That's what I have always seen with regards to unit leaders.


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#18 David CO

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:50 PM

Anyone on the charter needs an application, no? Either Scouter, MBC or Committee Member. Scout Parent has been gone a few years.

 

If you fill out a Committee Member application you don't need to put down a role (e.g., treasurer, events, etc.).

 

I think @CalicoPenn has it right. That's what I have always seen with regards to unit leaders.

 

I believe that is still correct.  IH does not fill out a membership application.  Am I wrong?


Edited by David CO, 16 February 2017 - 03:53 PM.

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#19 Col. Flagg

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 04:03 PM

I believe that is still correct.  IH does not fill out a membership application.  Am I wrong?

 

IH I don't think does. For our CO, which is a church, it would be the head pastor. I don't think we've ever had him fill out an application. Maybe we're doing it wrong. Maybe our membership coordinator is doing it without us knowing.  :)


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#20 Stosh

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 04:48 PM

IH doesn't need an application.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)





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