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Selection of Adult candidates


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#1 Chisos

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 08:50 PM

Our troop is doing elections next month.  We have several eligible scouts, and I expect a few will be elected.  We have a couple of adults that are eligible (camping-wise); who may be good candidates; good Scouters that would be an asset to the Lodge.

 

My question is, are adult candidates typically "asked" if they would be interested?  Or do troop committees typically nominate someone without their prior knowledge?


Edited by Chisos, 06 February 2017 - 08:51 PM.

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#2 John-in-KC

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 09:42 PM

OA for adults is not an honor.  They definitely should be asked before they are added to the list for membership.

 

The basis for adult membership is his/her ability to contribute to and support the OA program.  That may mean a form of being an Adviser, or that may mean the ability to get Arrowmen to events, or that may mean a special skill, trade, or craft needed by the lodge or the council Scout Reservation.


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#3 Back Pack

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 08:12 AM

Our troop is doing elections next month.  We have several eligible scouts, and I expect a few will be elected.  We have a couple of adults that are eligible (camping-wise); who may be good candidates; good Scouters that would be an asset to the Lodge.
 
My question is, are adult candidates typically "asked" if they would be interested?  Or do troop committees typically nominate someone without their prior knowledge?


Our unit allows the ASMs to elect from the eligible adults, similar to how the boys do it. Their camping nights and service hours are made known so scouters can see the level of participation. We ask the candidates before we do this to make sure they want this honor.

I know other units that either have just the SM decide, one let's the unit's OA youth decide, another let's the troop committee decide. I don't think I've ever seen any rules on how it should be done, but I could be wrong.
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#4 Chisos

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 08:25 AM

OA for adults is not an honor.  They definitely should be asked before they are added to the list for membership.

 

The basis for adult membership is his/her ability to contribute to and support the OA program.  That may mean a form of being an Adviser, or that may mean the ability to get Arrowmen to events, or that may mean a special skill, trade, or craft needed by the lodge or the council Scout Reservation.

 

Right--I know the selection is to be based on the Scouter's ability to help the OA in some way.  I guess I was curious if it was typical to give someone a "heads-up" (and right to decline, I guess) prior to being "volun-told"  :)


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#5 JosephMD

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 09:08 AM

The others have noted that nominations should be made of those who the unit thinks may have something to offer to the order of the arrow.  While not an honor officially, many still find it an honor to be asked to serve.  My best advice is that you know the adults in your unit better than anyone else in your scouting community, and, you know there are some adults that don't need to be asked before being nominated, and there are some, that you think may have something to offer, but maybe you are not sure, ask them. 

 

As a chapter adviser, I know I need adults with a couple of spare weekends and a couple more spare evenings per year.  Right now, it is making sure that our elections team has transportation to troop meetings that aren't in their neighborhood.  That our chiefs and those who serve on lodge committees have transportation to lodge meetings.  I also need adults to help the youth get to fellowships & conclave as a lot of these events occur some distance away.  I hope some of these adults can develop into advisers for various chapter committees, such as, elections, ceremonies, dance, etc. as one day, the current adults filling those roles will move on and we will need someone to fill their shoes.  I also need a finance adult, it is something that I'm not very good at myself, budgets, balancing, etc.  I think it would be really helpful to have someone with a background in that sort of thing to help the youth in charge get a handle on these budget things. 


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#6 Stosh

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 05:19 PM

That's not the way things work on this end of the stick.  It's a sash and dash for the adults as well.  I was nominated and called out (I thought they were calling out my son,???)  Anyway, I did ordeal and brotherhood and offered my services many times to the lodge and it was always met with silence.  After a while I just gave up.  In the past 25 years I have received 2 newsletters from the lodge.... I think they were both mistakenly addressed to me.  I have no other explanation for it.  I don't even get information from the lodge as SM of a troop. 


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#7 deanofmac

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 10:50 AM

Do the 15 camping nights in the previous 2 years still apply? If so, I have a question. If an ASM has 5 long term nights, 9 regular camping nights, and tented for only 3 of the 5 days at a second summer camp, does at least 1 night at the second summer camp qualify? That would give them the 15 needed to be considered.

 

Thanks!


Edited by deanofmac, 14 February 2017 - 10:52 AM.

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Dean Roberts

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#8 krikkitbot

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 10:54 AM

Do the 15 camping nights in the previous 2 years still apply? If so, I have a question. If an ASM has 5 long term nights, 9 regular camping nights, and tented for only 3 of the 5 days at a second summer camp, does at least 1 night at the second summer camp qualify? That would give them the 15 needed to be considered.

 

Thanks!

 

Is this ASM going to provide service to the OA? Will he/she be an asset to the boys? If so, I wouldn't hesitate to nominate him/her. 


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#9 Col. Flagg

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 11:01 AM

Do the 15 camping nights in the previous 2 years still apply? If so, I have a question. If an ASM has 5 long term nights, 9 regular camping nights, and tented for only 3 of the 5 days at a second summer camp, does at least 1 night at the second summer camp qualify? That would give them the 15 needed to be considered.

 

Thanks!

 

It is a rolling two years. So for example, if your unit election is in February 20, 2017 the two year cycle is from Feb 20, 2015 to Feb 20, 2017. They must have the required camping within that time frame.

 

I think you should ask your OA Lodge your question. In my Lodge that would not count. You get to pick which long term camp applies; Summer Camp 1 or Summer Camp 2. They won't allow you to combine long term camps to make one whole one.

 

The requirement is 5 consecutive nights for the long-term requirement to be met. If they don't meet that, they don't qualify...even if they have 30 nights for the year.

 

"The 15 nights must include one, but no more than one, long-term camp consisting of at least five consecutive nights of overnight camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America. Only five nights of the long-term camp may be credited toward the 15-night camping requirement."


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#10 krikkitbot

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 11:24 AM

It is a rolling two years. So for example, if your unit election is in February 20, 2017 the two year cycle is from Feb 20, 2015 to Feb 20, 2017. They must have the required camping within that time frame.

 

I think you should ask your OA Lodge your question. In my Lodge that would not count. You get to pick which long term camp applies; Summer Camp 1 or Summer Camp 2. They won't allow you to combine long term camps to make one whole one.

 

The requirement is 5 consecutive nights for the long-term requirement to be met. If they don't meet that, they don't qualify...even if they have 30 nights for the year.

 

"The 15 nights must include one, but no more than one, long-term camp consisting of at least five consecutive nights of overnight camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America. Only five nights of the long-term camp may be credited toward the 15-night camping requirement."

 

Unless I'm misreading his statement, the ASM in question only camped 3 nights of the second summer cam therefore that is not long term camping. 


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#11 Stosh

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 11:27 AM

Unless I'm misreading his statement, the ASM in question only camped 3 nights of the second summer cam therefore that is not long term camping. 

Good catch, didn't notice that.  I think BSA says long term camping is 72+ hours


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#12 pchadbo

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 11:32 AM

And to add to the confusion, for better or worse, at the Lodge level there can be waivers for any and all of the requirements.  I know, I was Shang-Haied in by the Lodge Adviser and the Chapter Adviser after almost deliberately avoiding summer camp.


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#13 Col. Flagg

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 11:36 AM

Unless I'm misreading his statement, the ASM in question only camped 3 nights of the second summer cam therefore that is not long term camping.

 
I was a bit confused I must admit. I have seen lodges count attending summer camp in any capacity over two days as having gone to a long term camp. I agree it is not considered a long-term camp per BSA's own glossary, that's why I suggested to eliminate any doubt and ask the Lodge. This assumes all nights camped were under the stars or tent and not lock-ins, cabin camping or sleeping in the car. I have seen a few of those recently.  :confused:


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#14 deanofmac

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 11:46 AM

Thanks for the replies. The ASM only stayed at camp from Sunday thru Wednesday morning. I'll ask my OA advisor to inquire with the lodge. They would be a plus to the OA scouts, which is what is needed.


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Dean Roberts

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..and a Staffer too! C3-133-14 and C3-133-16


#15 HelpfulTracks

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 11:51 AM

Our unit allows the ASMs to elect from the eligible adults, similar to how the boys do it. Their camping nights and service hours are made known so scouters can see the level of participation. We ask the candidates before we do this to make sure they want this honor.
I know other units that either have just the SM decide, one let's the unit's OA youth decide, another let's the troop committee decide. I don't think I've ever seen any rules on how it should be done, but I could be wrong.


Actually there are rules. The Unit Committee may make nominations (not elections) for adults become a member of the Order of the Arrow.

A Unit Committee may nominate one leader for every three scouts elected to the OA during a given election. The Scoutmaster does not count against that number. So if I troop elected three (youth) members to the OA, the Committee may nominate one adult, 4 youth elected allow 2 adult nominations, 7 youth 3 adults and so on. The Unit Committee may also nominate the Unit Leader as well, and not count against that number.

Those nominations are given to the Adult Selection Committee who determine which adults are called out. I believe there is a limit that the ASC can select for call out, based on the number of active youth in the lodge, but I don't recall what that number is off hand.
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#16 HelpfulTracks

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 11:59 AM

Good catch, didn't notice that.  I think BSA says long term camping is 72+ hours


The OA requires 6 contiguous days and 5 nights resident camp. I have never seen it defined as such, it may be, but resident Camp is taken to refer to the Council Summer camps. That makes sense because much of the OA's service is to those camps as well as promoting it.
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#17 fred johnson

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 12:30 PM

We usually leave the selection to the scoutmaster.  He usually considers who has been there the longest and helped the most that is not in OA.  Then he asks them to see if they are interested and would they go through the Ordeal.  Essentially, the scoutmaster is looking for something that is fair and will be used.  


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#18 Col. Flagg

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 12:38 PM

Actually there are rules. The Unit Committee may make nominations (not elections) for adults become a member of the Order of the Arrow.

A Unit Committee may nominate one leader for every three scouts elected to the OA during a given election. The Scoutmaster does not count against that number. So if I troop elected three (youth) members to the OA, the Committee may nominate one adult, 4 youth elected allow 2 adult nominations, 7 youth 3 adults and so on. The Unit Committee may also nominate the Unit Leader as well, and not count against that number.

Those nominations are given to the Adult Selection Committee who determine which adults are called out. I believe there is a limit that the ASC can select for call out, based on the number of active youth in the lodge, but I don't recall what that number is off hand.

 

Does not say who the unit committee is comprised of. It that the troop committee? If so, they might want to say that to be clear. I am with @fred johnson, we have the SM and OA ASMs make the recommendation.

 

The OA requires 6 contiguous days and 5 nights resident camp. I have never seen it defined as such, it may be, but resident Camp is taken to refer to the Council Summer camps. That makes sense because much of the OA's service is to those camps as well as promoting it.

 

From the OA Guide to Elections Adult Candidate Form: "The camping requirement for youth candidates must be fulfilled by adults for them to be considered. To be eligible, the adult must have completed 15 nights of Boy Scout camping during the two years immediately prior to nomination. The 15 nights must include one, but no more than one, long-term camp consisting of five consecutive nights of overnight camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the BSA. Only five nights of the long-term camp may be credited toward the 15-night camping requirement; the balance must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps of, at most, three nights each. Include above the dates and location of the long-term camping experience."

 

No mention of days required, just nights camping.


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#19 deanofmac

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 12:45 PM

We usually leave the selection to the scoutmaster.  He usually considers who has been there the longest and helped the most that is not in OA.  Then he asks them to see if they are interested and would they go through the Ordeal.  Essentially, the scoutmaster is looking for something that is fair and will be used.  

 

 

I am the Scoutmaster but I'm not an OA member. Interestingly enough. I fumed-out as a scout and have been back in Scouting as an adult for 7 years, 3 with the troop.


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Dean Roberts

Scoutmaster, Troop 315 Macomb
I used to be an Owl, C3-133-11
..and a Staffer too! C3-133-14 and C3-133-16


#20 krikkitbot

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 12:52 PM

I am the Scoutmaster but I'm not an OA member. Interestingly enough. I fumed-out as a scout and have been back in Scouting as an adult for 7 years, 3 with the troop.

 

What's keeping you from joining the OA now? Your nomination does not count against the numbers. Have you camped 15 nights in the last 2 years? (I'm betting that you have camped 15 nights in the last year ;)) Have the committee submit your name! :)


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