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Boys and Girls (Co-Ed) Cub and Boy Scouts Are Coming


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#1 Midwest Scouter

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 07:11 PM

We Now Have Our 1st Cub Co-Ed Pack (Boys And Girls) As A Pilot Program. The entire meeting room went silent when given this news by our district.

 

It was just a matter of time...


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#2 NJCubScouter

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 07:35 PM

Midwest Scouter, it would be interesting to see some verification of such a surprising claim. Of course, if doing so would disclose more information about your location than you wish to provide, I would understand.

It's just that I wouldn't want to see the forum go into a state of mass hysteria (not that THAT could ever happen) over something that might turn out to be a misinterpretation of something someone said. (Not that THAT could ever happen.)
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#3 Back Pack

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 09:33 AM

Not sure how legit this is but here's a pack that claims to be coed.

http://www.troopcrew56.org/cubs/
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#4 NJCubScouter

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 06:45 PM

Not sure how legit this is but here's a pack that claims to be coed.

http://www.troopcrew56.org/cubs/


The question is, does this unit's council and/or National know about this, and what if anything are they doing about it?

I see at least one person in that photo who clearly appears to be a girl, in a Cub Scout uniform. Is she registered as a Cub Scout?

And this is not the first indication in this forum that some packs are indeed allowing girls to "participate". Whether that means they are also allowed to "join" is another question.

Depending on the answers, it may be that Cub Scouts has already become coed as a matter of local option, and the BSA isn't telling us. Or maybe not.

Edited by NJCubScouter, 05 February 2017 - 08:24 PM.

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#5 deanofmac

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 08:22 AM

I wouldn't doubt that co-ed units are coming. I heard from a insider at BSA HQ that they are already working on integrating the sexes in Cub Scouts. I can't offer proof or disclose the person but you can be assured it will come. Mention "lawsuit" and things change rapidly.


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Dean Roberts

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..and a Staffer too! C3-133-14 and C3-133-16


#6 RichardB

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 08:27 AM

You folks are hilarious.   So, @Midwest Scouter Council and District or it doesn't count.   Yeah and @deanofmac, feel free to provide a source and I'll chat with them so that we can coordinate.......


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#7 deanofmac

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 08:45 AM

I did some research on Scouts-L and found that the unit in question does indeed run a clandestine co-ed program. It works in Cambridge...

 

More info and an article on the unit can be found at:

 

http://archive.bosto...ls_not_allowed/

 

The Pack/Troop/Crew are combined using LFL to add the females.

 

It's only a matter of time. Money and lawyers will determine the outcome.


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Dean Roberts

Scoutmaster, Troop 315 Macomb
I used to be an Owl, C3-133-11
..and a Staffer too! C3-133-14 and C3-133-16


#8 Pale Horse

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 09:17 AM

I did some research on Scouts-L and found that the unit in question does indeed run a clandestine co-ed program. It works in Cambridge...

 

More info and an article on the unit can be found at:

 

http://archive.bosto...ls_not_allowed/

 

The Pack/Troop/Crew are combined using LFL to add the females.

 

It's only a matter of time. Money and lawyers will determine the outcome.

 

Any link to full article without pay site?


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#9 Snow Owl

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 12:57 PM

It is not the fear of lawsuits driving national BSA toward fully going coed it is the added revenue potential.  BSA has been, at least partially, coed in Cub and Scouts for a while.  Cub Scout units have female siblings participating at all levels.  Den meetings, Pack meetings, Pack events and overnighters.  Some girls are wearing uniforms or "class Bs" (yes I know there is no class A or B but we all know what it means).  The councils, or at least some councils, include cub scout age siblings in council sponsored events           
 
As for the Boy Scout or "Scout" age level it is upon us as well.  Maybe not in the troops yet but I see several Troops/Crews that have completely blurred the line.  I have also been working the range at summer camps and winter camps and notice a greater number of girls participating at all levels either as ventures or as siblings. 
 
So it is not a question of "if" but "when."  If you listen to or read the speech of Randall Stephenson you will notice he avoids using any gender references and the word "boy."
 
Coed is coming we need to be ready and adjust.

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#10 Torchwood

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 02:27 PM

Not sure why this is such a huge issue, when it seems to work in almost every other country that has a Scouting program. I know that if given the option, my 12 year old daughter would drop GSUSA in a heartbeat.


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#11 Col. Flagg

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 03:58 PM

Not sure why this is such a huge issue, when it seems to work in almost every other country that has a Scouting program. I know that if given the option, my 12 year old daughter would drop GSUSA in a heartbeat.

 

I believe the point is having something for boys only. You know, that old chestnut.

 

Venturing is for girls, so the girls have that as an option. Not sure why they need to crow bar their way in to Boy Scouts.


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#12 Rick_in_CA

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 08:04 PM

Not sure why this is such a huge issue, when it seems to work in almost every other country that has a Scouting program.

I think part of the reason (and only part) it's such a big issue is that the USA still has a strong puritanical streak. Look at all the fuss about sleeping arrangements whenever this topic comes up. I understand that with our European counterparts, coed sleeping arrangements are not uncommon (in international scout camps like Kandersteg, I understand that single sex sleeping quarters are only by special request). They look at us and don't understand the fuss. It's right up there with beer for the older scouts at camp outs (at least in Germany).

 

Compared to a lot of cultures, we are incredibly uptight. Which means that we need a lot more rules and procedures (and a lot more CYA type behaviors) to handle coed units than a German unit would. Not to mention that in our sue happy and semi-hysterical society, our legal risks are also probably greater.

 

For me, I know the day that the BSA goes coed is the day that I buy umbrella liability insurance.

 

Basically I fear that coed scouting will simply be harder to do here than in many other countries.


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#13 Stosh

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 08:23 PM

I have the magic elixir that will solve all the BSA's problems.

 

We're going to go co-ed, YPT will apply and everyone will totally elated.....

 

 

 

 

Until the girl who thinks she's a boy won't sleep with the other girls..... and "her" parents sue the unit for discrimination.

 

 

One can spend an enormous amount of time, effort and verbiage trying to get to the bottom of the bottomless pit.  As long as there are people out there that want to change the rules of the game every time they get a wild hair, no one is ever going to win.  There are people out there that want nothing more than to play the game of "Drama".

 

The only way to win is to walk away from the game.  Good luck with that.  You're never going to win.  The quicker one realizes that, the happier they are going to be.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#14 Snow Owl

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 10:22 PM

All of these issues bouncing back an forth confirms one thing, to me at least, we need to have more power/authority on the volunteer side of the organization.


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#15 Col. Flagg

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 10:35 AM

All of these issues bouncing back an forth confirms one thing, to me at least, we need to have more power/authority on the volunteer side of the organization.

 

It allegedly exists today. You have District Commissioners that are part of the Council Commissioners group (page 13). Both of these roles is supposed to "Represent all uniformed youth and Scouters". More on councils here.

 

I think where this whole system breaks down is three key areas. First, CORs are simply not involved in BSA beyond signing paperwork. I have seen very few CORs attend anything Scout related. Second, volunteers at the district and council level (to me) seem more focused on keeping the status quo, getting awards or checking boxes than really representing their units. Lastly, I think national focuses on money and missions or visions poorly aligned to what the units need/want. Those are my observations. Yours may vary.


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#16 RichardB

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 10:37 AM

So, still asking, what council and district the "pilot" is in.   Would really like to know.    


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#17 Col. Flagg

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 12:02 PM

So, still asking, what council and district the "pilot" is in.   Would really like to know.    

 

Think he means STEM? Isn't that co-ed and a pilot program? That is the only thing I can think of that's pilot and co-ed younger than 14. Or am I off?


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#18 NJCubScouter

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 02:29 PM

Think he means STEM? Isn't that co-ed and a pilot program? That is the only thing I can think of that's pilot and co-ed younger than 14. Or am I off?

 
He's not talking about STEM.  The original poster was talking about an alleged co-ed Cub Scout pack, announced as a "pilot program" by someone from "district".

(Later edit: In the previous sentence, "announced" should be "allegedly announced". I am not taking anything for granted here.)

Edited by NJCubScouter, 07 February 2017 - 03:49 PM.

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#19 EmberMike

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 03:01 PM

Man, what a can of worms this is. On the one hand I'm kind of impressed that some units have gone rogue and allowed girls to participate and actually wear the uniform and seemingly progress in rank. 

 

On the other hand, my head immediately jumps to, "How are these girls participating fully when they're not registered members?" The liability issues and insurance issues alone give me chills. God forbid one of these girls gets hurt on a trip that they're technically not supposed to be on. 

 

This probably only works well at the Cub level without support from district. Or with unofficial support. Beyond that, I'd be really surprised to see a girl in a rogue troop start hitting the upper ranks or get through Eagle paperwork. Certainly wouldn't expect to see full sign-off from her district. 

 

Doesn't mean someone won't try, though. Expect to see the headline soon: "Girl petitions Boy Scouts to become first female Eagle Scout." It'll happen, probably sooner than we expect. 


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#20 Col. Flagg

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 03:28 PM

He's not talking about STEM.  The original poster was talking about an alleged co-ed Cub Scout pack, announced as a "pilot program" by someone from "district".

 

Wouldn't be the first time someone heard something at a district meeting and got it way wrong. :)


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