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Transgender policy change


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#501 gumbymaster

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 01:07 PM

Pale Horse.  You just don't get it.  For your information this scout was attempting to discuss in detail HIS  "dudes he smashed" as you so colorfully have put it.  I am not sure where you participate in scouting at but I have never heard or witnessed any scouts speaking or heard any other scouts saying they have heard or discussed their activity.  So no you are wrong when you say it isn't a gay or straight issue.  In this case, it was a gay issue.  This is my son we are talking about and when my son says he is not comfortable around this type of behavior, I will remove my son from that situation.  It has nothing to do with not being accepting or tolerant.  This is in the best interest of my son and family.  Thank you!

 

Some 30+ years ago, when I was a scout youth, and the first person in our patrol/circle of friends managed to "go all the way" with his girlfriend ... Just like that scene in Grease, we were all "tell me more, tell me more".  It is unrealistic for us to expect that youth of that age won't (want to) talk about it, or that they will not be curious about it if others are talking.  It is a momentary lapse in "A Scout is Clean", but it is an age (but not scouting) appropriate discussion. 

 

It would also be unrealistic to expect that a gay youth member would also not be similarly inclined to "brag" about their conquests.

 

While a gay youth might be more inclined to keep quite about such things, it would be more out of a sense of peer pressure and non acceptance.  Which is the opposite of why a straight youth who might be inclined to keep such things between himself and his girlfriend, might be induced to join the locker room conversations. 

 

I do not take a position of if you think such behavior is right or wrong - in either case it is not appropriate for a scouting venue.

 

As an Adult leader, if I were aware of or overhead the discussion, in either case - because to do otherwise would be unfair - would be to remind the youth such discussions are inappropriate at a Scout function.  And while I would probably not extend this to a level of consequences, if I did in one case, I would also have to do so in the other case.

 

As said, it [the oversharing discussion] is not (should not be) a gay or straight issue; it is one of what is appropriate at a Scouting function and what is not.


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#502 Peregrinator

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 08:16 AM

separate tents for a married couple :o thats well mad. 

Why is it? This is scouting not family camping.


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#503 Stosh

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 08:26 AM

Why is it? This is scouting not family camping.

 

The Mrs. and I take the scoutss out all the time.  She's well versed in outdoor environment, forester by trade and many years working with the National Forestry Service in Alaska as a crew supervisor.  She is also an expert in canoeing and kayaking and goes along as a qualified safety person on the floats.  She sleeps in the same tent with me.   Not all seems on the surface what lurks below.  :)


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#504 NJCubScouter

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 09:01 AM

 

 

I imagine no different than all boy units with female SM/ASMs.  Regardless, BSA is asexual in my opinion.  Our unit has never had husband/wife leader team before but it has been discussed.  The Troop would insist on separate tents for even a married couple.

separate tents for a married couple :o thats well mad.

 

Why is it? This is scouting not family camping.

 


I figured I was not the only one who did not remember this exchange between DadScouts and Tyke on the second page of this 26-page thread, so I "quoted" all of the relevant posts.

 

BSA policy permits married couples to tent together.  Although there has never been a married couple among the leaders in my troop, I suspect that most married couples would choose to share a tent (like Stosh and his wife) and that most units would not have a problem with it.  It does not matter whether it is "Scout camping" or "family camping."  It is a matter of personal/unit preference.


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#505 Chadamus

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 09:13 AM

On the rare occasion when my wife (MC) joins myself (ASM) and the Troop on a campout, we tent together. No one has a problem with it.


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#506 qwazse

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 09:23 AM

I figured I was not the only one who did not remember this exchange between DadScouts and Tyke on the second page of this 26-page thread, so I "quoted" all of the relevant posts.

 

BSA policy permits married couples to tent together.  Although there has never been a married couple among the leaders in my troop, I suspect that most married couples would choose to share a tent (like Stosh and his wife) and that most units would not have a problem with it.  It does not matter whether it is "Scout camping" or "family camping."  It is a matter of personal/unit preference.

I must have missed this.

 

It is, at its core, a matter of not catching the ire of those who take St. Paul at his word when he said "Let the marriage bed be sacred." (There are several other references from more ancient texts as well.) If there's any place where our religious CO's being the majority have left their mark, it is in our YPT.

 

When Mrs. Q joins us, we share a tent. Mainly because she refuses to join me out under the stars! :D


Edited by qwazse, 04 April 2017 - 09:23 AM.

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#507 Stosh

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 09:37 AM

I always tent with my wife.  In bear country I figure she's sweeter than I am and I can outrun her.  Two very important issues to consider when camping.


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#508 CalicoPenn

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 09:57 AM

I always tent with my wife.  In bear country I figure she's sweeter than I am and I can outrun her.  Two very important issues to consider when camping.

 

 

Stosh,

 

As soon as I read this I thought of this quote from you:

 

She's well versed in outdoor environment, forester by trade and many years working with the National Forestry Service in Alaska as a crew supervisor

 

Somehow I get the feeling that she's not worried about camping in bear country when she's with you because she knows she'll be able to outwit both you and the bear in the wilderness.

 

;)


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#509 Stosh

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:01 AM

I have no doubt that you are correct in that assumption.  She's probably better at dealing with bears than I am.   Still, I'm going to always wear my running shoes to bed, just in case. :unsure:


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#510 Stosh

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:13 AM

She's the one that taught me that bears are always a concern, but moose are the real danger.  They are just plain ornery.  We were up in Yellowstone and saw a number of cars parked along the road.  Someone had seen something.  So we stopped to see what everyone was up to.  About 75 yards off the road someone had come across a moose lying down resting.  The crowd had totally encircled the moose taking pictures.  She said, "We need to get out of here NOW!"  I was surprised.  She said if that moose gets to it's feet someone's going to get hurt. 

 

While in Alaska if there was a bear in the neighborhood, her kids were still allowed to play outdoors, but if a moose was sighted (which was quite often) the kids were all rounded up and put in the house.  A few years ago the son of a neighbor of hers (teenager) was killed as he walked from the school bus drop off to the house (something he had done hundreds of times before) when he couldn't get around an intruding moose.

 

The area in which anyone camps needs to be scouted and made safe and all the boys need to be trained for such situations well in advance.


Edited by Stosh, 04 April 2017 - 10:14 AM.

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#511 NJCubScouter

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:30 AM

I never would have bet that a thread could go from transgender Scouts to marauding moose in only 511 posts.


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#512 Peregrinator

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 11:17 AM

I didn't say it shouldn't be done (married folks tenting together), I asked why it was "mad" (I guess that is British for "crazy") that they not.


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#513 Stosh

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 11:20 AM

I never would have bet that a thread could go from transgender Scouts to marauding moose in only 511 posts.

 

The gender neutral ones are the worst!


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#514 Peregrinator

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 12:09 PM

The gender neutral ones are the worst!

They're in rut all the time.


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#515 NJCubScouter

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 01:59 PM

I didn't say it shouldn't be done (married folks tenting together), I asked why it was "mad" (I guess that is British for "crazy") that they not.


I agree with you that it is not "mad" (i.e. crazy) to require married couples to tent separately. It is unusual, but as I said, it is a matter of personal preference. But as far as your post, I just didn't see what family camping vs. Scout camping had to do with it.
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#516 EagleonFire

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 08:16 PM

My wife and I never share a tent on a campout. Her decision. We trained the kids from the get go that if they come out of their tent at night that they go straight to the Leaders tent. And since my co Leaders have a tendency to be off and on in their consistency she thinks I need to be at that tent for them to find.
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#517 Cambridgeskip

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 07:50 AM

I think Tyke may be more commenting on there being any rule at all regarding the sleeping arrangements for adults. Other than a requirement for adults to have separate accommodation to youth members adults are free to choose their own arrangements regardless of gender, marital status etc Quite simply a big cultural difference I think.
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#518 tyke

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 04:58 PM

yep in the UK you can pretty much share a tent with whoever you want as long as its adults, no one really cares as its generally none of there business. I share with my scout leader who is also my other half, we are not married, the kids know we are a gay couple, as do most of there parents, and the parents are more interested in us providing a safe and fun  camp than who and were we sleep.


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#519 tyke

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 05:09 PM

(Double post)

Edited by NJCubScouter, 05 April 2017 - 05:44 PM.

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#520 Ankylus

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 09:29 AM

BSA policy permits married couples to tent together.  Although there has never been a married couple among the leaders in my troop, I suspect that most married couples would choose to share a tent (like Stosh and his wife) and that most units would not have a problem with it.  It does not matter whether it is "Scout camping" or "family camping."  It is a matter of personal/unit preference.

 

We routinely have several married couples on outings in our troop and they all share a tent with their married partner. Nobody has ever had a problem with it, and we sometimes have as many as 60 to 80 on an outing. It never occurred to me that anybody would object. 

 

We did one time on a cub scout outing have a divorced couple who wanted to share a tent. I mean, they had once been married, then they divorced, and they were in the process of reconciling. They came to us and asked what the rules on the sleeping arrangements were. I told them that the rule was that unmarried men and women were not permitted to tent together but that the rules did not address divorced couples and other complications. And that I wasn't going to check for compliance with the general rule in middle of the night.

 

But this question seems to be taking a hit now with the whole trans/homosexuality thing. We just are not getting any kind of guidance from national. I truly resent being put in a position where I HAVE to deal with other people's sexuality.


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