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Transgender policy change


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#481 Ranman328

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 05:58 PM

How exactly was he "vocal about his lifestyle"? A scout, any scout, who brags about how many "chicks he smashed" last week isn't Morally Straight either.  This isn't a gay/straight issue, it's a decorum issue.

 

The scout needed to be realize, and it's Leader's responsibility to educate, that there are times and places for everything.  Scouting is about scouting.

 

Pale Horse.  You just don't get it.  For your information this scout was attempting to discuss in detail HIS  "dudes he smashed" as you so colorfully have put it.  I am not sure where you participate in scouting at but I have never heard or witnessed any scouts speaking or heard any other scouts saying they have heard or discussed their activity.  So no you are wrong when you say it isn't a gay or straight issue.  In this case, it was a gay issue.  This is my son we are talking about and when my son says he is not comfortable around this type of behavior, I will remove my son from that situation.  It has nothing to do with not being accepting or tolerant.  This is in the best interest of my son and family.  Thank you!


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#482 David CO

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:00 PM

TAHAWK,

 

What!  Now you are saying that our (religious) units aren't following the scout law!  That is outrageous!

 

You are welcome to belong to a "polyglot" unit if you wish.  But stop insulting the religious CO's who run a scouting program as a part of their religious youth ministry.


Edited by David CO, 17 February 2017 - 06:12 PM.

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#483 Pale Horse

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:07 PM

Pale Horse.  You just don't get it.  For your information this scout was attempting to discuss in detail HIS  "dudes he smashed" as you so colorfully have put it.  I am not sure where you participate in scouting at but I have never heard or witnessed any scouts speaking or heard any other scouts saying they have heard or discussed their activity.  So no you are wrong when you say it isn't a gay or straight issue.  In this case, it was a gay issue.  This is my son we are talking about and when my son says he is not comfortable around this type of behavior, I will remove my son from that situation.  It has nothing to do with not being accepting or tolerant.  This is in the best interest of my son and family.  Thank you!

 

Please don't assume to know what I get and don't get.  You're also contradicting yourself.  You say you've never heard scouts speak of their sexual activity, yet you say this scout was.  Which is it?  

 

I'm not sure where you do your scouting activity, but as many other have said, the topics of sex and inappropriate talk does happen; hormones, puberty, and all that. This is 100% correctable behavior, and not related to the scout being gay.  Whether he or anyone was talking about his male or female conquests, it's inappropriate.  Instead of trying to shelter your son from the real world, correct the behavior, explain why it's inappropriate and move on.  


Edited by Pale Horse, 17 February 2017 - 06:10 PM.

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#484 Stosh

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:15 PM

Sheltering one's son from the real world is a parent's responsibility until they are 18.  Then they should be able to protect themselves.  This is why we have laws against abuse of children so when parents don't protect them someone else has to.  When a scout says he feels uncomfortable, a parent, scouter, clergy, teacher, and law enforcement are there to protect him.  If none of them are capable of doing that, the parent has to so it alone.  It's all part of the pamphlets in the front of every scout book.  It's for parents to discuss with their child.  It might be appropriate as scouters to read it as well.  Flaunting one's sexuality in front of others isn't an appropriate activity for adults, definitely not for those under 18.


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There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#485 Chadamus

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:27 PM

Preparing one's son for the real world is a parent's responsibility.


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#486 Stosh

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:55 PM

Preparing encompasses a wide range of things.  I didn't let my two year old play in the kitchen knives, although it may come in handy in the real world to know how to use them.  The pots and pans were free game.  I told them to look both ways before crossing the street.  Any child that gets run down at age 6 won't live long enough to know what the real world is.  I told them not to play near the electrical outlets, I told them they couldn't climb on the top of the piano.  I told them to wash their hands before eating and after using the bathroom.  I told them the stove and oven gets hot which eventually in the real world which is good  to know when it comes time to cook dinner. 

 

Is all that preparing them for the real world?  Or is it protecting them long enough the get to the real world where they can figure it out on their own?  I have three rules in my troop and Safety First is #1.  How's that preparing them for the real world fraught with danger?  I don't let them play with knives, I comment when they play in the fire.  Again the boys need to survive long enough to get to the real world, that's what parents work very hard at doing.

 

A person's sexual life used to be a private matter between husband and wife.  The master bedroom was off-limits to us even in the daytime when no one was round.  It might be a bit old-fashioned, but then marriages lasted 50+ years whereas today making it to 5 is a great accomplishment.  A gentleman of decorum had more important things to talk about than what seems to be the focus of conversation in today's "real" world.  I think a gentleman of decorum might also be synonymous with the kind of men BSA used to develop. 

 

And as an after thought, look around, is the "real world" out there is there any place one really wants to be involved too much with?  To this day I still do many things to protect my adult children and my grandchildren from the "real world".  It's called survival and from birth on, it's what parents do for their children regardless of age.  And one last thought, these children have been in the "real world" since the day they were born.


Edited by Stosh, 17 February 2017 - 06:56 PM.

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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#487 TAHAWK

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 07:26 PM

TAHAWK,

 

What!  Now you are saying that our (religious) units aren't following the scout law!  That is outrageous!

 

You are welcome to belong to a "polyglot" unit if you wish.  But stop insulting the religious CO's who run a scouting program as a part of their religious youth ministry.

Scouting says one is to respect the religious beliefs of others.  Others agree, including the Holy Father.  I predict that Only you are insulted by my citation of that point of the Law, but I've been wrong before and will be wrong again.

 

In a troop that makes it clear that it consists of many beliefs, joining and then quitting or complaining because there are Scouts of many beliefs other than yours is not respecting the beliefs of others.  That, and not your imaginings, was the context of my statement.

 

If witnessing other beliefs in action is so abhorrent to you, I don't think you would have come near either troop.  Why, the SM of the second troop was Jew, and a Cantor at that!  So you would have been free to be "over there" not having to witness the "others" doing their thing(s). 


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#488 David CO

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 07:49 PM

First you say that we are "horrified" by other faiths, then you say that we find them "abhorrent", and you finish it off by insinuating that we are antisemitic.

 

Are there any other ways you want to insult my faith based (Catholic) units, or is that it?


Edited by David CO, 17 February 2017 - 08:15 PM.

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#489 Chadamus

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 07:56 PM

Sheltering one's son from the real world is a parent's responsibility until they are 18.  Then they should be able to protect themselves.

To this day I still do many things to protect my adult children and my grandchildren from the "real world".  It's called survival and from birth on, it's what parents do for their children regardless of age.

I've read enough of your posts to know you're fiercely proud of your children. And rightly so based on what you've shared.

Ideally, my son will outlast me. If so, I won't be around to "shelter" him from anything. Therefore, the best I can do is prepare him to handle himself in any situation that may arise.

Be Prepared. Sounds familiar :)


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#490 Stosh

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:14 PM

As one knows, my personal mantra for leadership is "take care of your people".  Part of that is protecting them as any good leader would do.  I try to walk the talk.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#491 TAHAWK

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:28 PM

First you say that we are "horrified" by other faiths, then you say that we find them "abhorrent", and you finish it off by insinuating that we are antisemitic.

 

Are there any other ways you want to insult my faith based (Catholic) units, or is that it?

 

Have you stopped beating your Scouts?


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#492 David CO

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:36 PM

Have you stopped beating your Scouts?

 

Nope.  I am getting old, but I'm still a decent athlete.  I beat my scouts regularly.  


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#493 TAHAWK

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:42 PM

Spare the rod . . . .


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#494 David CO

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:50 PM

Spare the rod . . . .

 

On the more serious side, we did have corporal punishment back when I started out as a teacher.  My school doesn't do that anymore.  We are discouraged from even joking about it.


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#495 Sentinel947

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:51 PM

@TAHAWK and @David CO

I'm not sure what the problem is here.
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#496 Stosh

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 09:58 PM

The lashings shall cease when the morale improves.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#497 Stosh

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 09:58 PM

@TAHAWK and @David CO

I'm not sure what the problem is here.

The problem is you don't see the humor in it.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#498 qwazse

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 10:48 PM

Not supposed to discuss it in scouting? I just can't get those Venturing Personal Safety Awareness videos out of my head. :confused:

 

Part of our problem: folks have this delusion that we can sway the moral strictures of another unit. So unit X includes some category of scout/scouter that unit Y finds anathema. Unit Y expects BSA to do something about it. Then unit Z finds out about how exclusive unit Y is, and expects BSA to do something about it. Finally, BSA says, "were standing by our units". Y doesn't like that means we put up with X, Z doesn't like that means we put up with Y, X just wants their scout/scouter back. Someone starts writing sob stories about how scout couldn't fit in at Y and has to go all the way to Z. And everyone is bludgeoned to the point that nobody looks good.

 

People have phones, and make those angry calls easily. This, my friends, is why local option is never an option.


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#499 TAHAWK

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 11:07 PM

The lashings shall cease when the morale improves.

At least we finally have an accurate illustration of the tripod lashing the in Handbook - after fifty-eight years.

 

(But lost the index in favor of another list of word-search results.)


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