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Tour Plan?

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#41 Stosh

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 12:48 PM

Scouting Magazine?  Web sites?  Blogs?  There's a number of different resources that can be used to disseminate the information, NONE are being used except the "over the fence gossip" method.


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#42 RichardB

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 01:27 PM

NJ, I don't know why the posts in this thread exist.  Live and current FAQ's:  http://www.scouting....ourPlanFAQ.aspx 
 
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PS:  Tour permits went away in 2011....the Tour Plan went away in 2012...Guess we have to wait and see what happens on the 1st.   I still love this one....http://blog.scouting...1/blade-length/
 
 
 

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#43 Col. Flagg

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 01:34 PM

Well that was helpful. :rolleyes:


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#44 Stosh

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 06:38 PM

Well that was helpful. :rolleyes:

 

Musta missed the memo..... :unsure:


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#45 NJCubScouter

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 09:26 PM

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@RichardB, this thread exists because a number of councils are telling their volunteers about a policy change and linking to a memo that is online that YOU apparently wrote.  You did write it, didn't you?  Or at least you "updated" it?  Is  the memo a joke?  And if it is a joke, what sanctions are going to be imposed on councils that have misled their volunteers by presenting it as the truth?  

 

Please just give us the straight story and, with all due respect, please stop playing word games.  It does not show respect for those of us whose membership in this organization allows you to have your job.


Edited by NJCubScouter, 22 March 2017 - 09:28 PM.

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#46 Col. Flagg

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 08:47 AM

 

NJ, I don't know why the posts in this thread exist.  Live and current FAQ's:  http://www.scouting....ourPlanFAQ.aspx
 
RichardB
 
PS:  Tour permits went away in 2011....the Tour Plan went away in 2012...Guess we have to wait and see what happens on the 1st.   I still love this one....http://blog.scouting...1/blade-length/

 

 

As OP I will ask the obvious which I think you attempted to answer, though I am not sure:

  • If this is a hoax, why doesn't BSA tell the councils, who have obviously swallowed the bait, that this is not correct?
     
  • Why can't ScoutingWire simply post something noting the hoax?
     
  • Was this an attempt by BSA at an April Fool's joke that went the wrong way and no one wants to admit it?
     
  • Can't we (the volunteers that have to fill out these forms) get a straight answer yes or no as to whether national intends on sun-setting the tour plan process and system?

Your answer is unclear at best, pedantic and condescending at worst...as if we should know better. Not sure it helps BSA's information image pulling such stunts, if in fact this is a stunt.


Edited by Col. Flagg, 23 March 2017 - 08:48 AM.

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#47 Stosh

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 10:30 AM

BSA throws out enough vagularities and mis-directional policies that they don't have to participate in childish April Fool's jokes.  Like the boy that cried "Wolf!", it's to the point where every day is April 1st when it comes to National BSA.


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#48 Torchwood

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 11:34 AM

I'm with NJ and the Colonel on this one. Please just simply answer the question- is this real or a hoax? If it is real, why is the information not on Scouting.org? If it is a hoax, National should email all registered leaders and let them know that they got punked.

 

Do we really need to go over the points of the Oath & Law here?


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#49 NealOnWheels

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 11:56 AM

The past April Fool's jokes were entertaining.  The further you read into the "news report" the more ludicrous it was and became obvious it was a joke.  And they were released closer to April 1st.  This latest memo was written in a completely different way.  It sounds serious and sincere.

 

If this is a hoax, Richard B needs to make sure the story is set straight.  A lot of units now believe it to be true.  A lot of Councils, including my own, do as well.


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#50 Stosh

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 12:25 PM

A scout is trustworthy...... How does one get trustworthy and hoax in the same sentence?


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Stosh

 

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#51 DuctTape

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 12:42 PM

If a hoax is clearly ridiculous to serve as a joke, then I do not see a problem with it. This however is actually a change many of us would see as desireable, clearly NOT ridiculous. Which means it is not a joke, and not funny.
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#52 Tampa Turtle

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 01:33 PM

Just got it! Hmmmmm


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#53 NJCubScouter

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 02:21 PM

Just got it! Hmmmmm

 

Just got what, the memo or the joke?


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#54 Stosh

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 02:30 PM

Just got what, the memo or the joke?

 

The official stance of the BSA on this????? Please share!


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#55 NJCubScouter

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 02:36 PM

I am not a huge fan of April Fools jokes, but if they have to exist, I think they need to be "self-contained" within the 24 hours of April 1.  That's a rule I just made up, but it's a good rule.  Otherwise they are just pranks, or to use another term, lies.  Memos that come out in March and discuss a fictional policy change effective April 1 are not April Fools jokes.  If we have to have this nonsense, let's at least limit it to one day.

 

Now there are people in this world, who if they knew it was me writing this, would say "Hey, what about that time in college when you..."   I did once manage to get an entire campus confused for a few hours, and I wish I could say how, but as I said, most of those people are still out there somewhere.  But that was a long time ago, and I was really still just a kid, not someone who could spread misinformation all over the country instantly through the Internet.  (Which, of course, didn't exist.)


Edited by NJCubScouter, 23 March 2017 - 02:39 PM.

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#56 frankpalazzi

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 07:39 PM

Yes actually. My pack was going to a state park that was not on the council list of approved facilities. We were told we can't go. This was before the online form.

We have units in our district which don't plan or staff their events to the minimum of the tour plan. As much as I hate paperwork it only takes 10 mins to fill this out and print it. Only needed if we go out of Council. Not a big deal and we will continue to do them even after they are taken down.

I've never heard of a "Council List of Approved Facilities."  Is this for insurance reasons??  I was always under the impression that all registered Scouts/Scouters had the same accident & sickness policy (from Mutual of Omaha?).  If insurance isn't the reason for this "list", then your council is reaching way over the line in their self-perceived scope of "authority."  Take your Pack wherever you want and don't worry about it.  BSA insurance doesn't kick in until all other avenues have been exhausted anyway!

 

The "Tour Permit" went away some 5 years ago, Richard B is correct.  It was replaced by the "Tour and Activity Plan" which is done online, and is neither approved nor denied; just filed.  It has NOT gone away, it still exists.  The TAP's only purpose is to facilitate the gathering of needed information in case of a problem/injury/catastrophe.  To the best of my knowledge, failure to file one does NOT void BSA sickness/accident coverage, it only prolongs the claim process. 

 

Regardless of what route you decide to take as far as filing a TAP, letting your CO know of your itinerary is always best practice.


Edited by frankpalazzi, 23 March 2017 - 07:41 PM.

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#57 Chisos

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 08:00 PM

The council approval is for Cub Scout pack campouts.  There are some specific facilities that are supposed to be available--running water, flush toilets, stuff like that, as I recall from BALOO back in the day.  I'd expect most public park type campgrounds meet those specs.

 

I can't recall a time that a tour plan that I've submitted has been "denied".  Now, if I said we were going to drive 1000 miles in 1 day to get somewhere, maybe there would be a question about that.  I did have one time that filing a tour plan caught the fact that a reservation we thought we had made for a council facility had "fallen through the cracks," and they called about it and we were able to work it out.  So that was good.

 

As for this thread, yeah, someone need to clear it up once and for all.  What's going to happen when someone shows up at Philmont without a copy of their tour plan, and tells them "I saw it on the internet..."


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#58 TAHAWK

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 08:02 PM

Today

 

http://www.scouting....ourPlanFAQ.aspx

 

If this is a hoax - about safety . . . . 


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#59 RememberSchiff

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 05:29 AM

 

Now there are people in this world, who if they knew it was me writing this, would say "Hey, what about that time in college when you..."   I did once manage to get an entire campus confused for a few hours, and I wish I could say how, but as I said, most of those people are still out there somewhere.  But that was a long time ago, and I was really still just a kid, not someone who could spread misinformation all over the country instantly through the Internet.  (Which, of course, didn't exist.)

 

Guys from Joisey were spreading nationwide confusion long before the internet. As a yute, I remember hearing on the radio that the Martians had landed at Grover's Mill, NJ. :eek:  Seemed to happen every Oct 30.

 

Scary, but we were more worried about Communists back in the day. As a joke, my father had me listen to this "true story" about a boy scout in Springfield who unwittingly joined a communist high school club the Pioneers. I googled and found it was actually Episode 3 The Pledge which was part of the If Freedom Failed, a syndicated radio show produced by The Armed Forces Radio and Television Service.

 

http://afrtsarchive....20&by-date=true

 

Hmmm, imagine if as a Scouter, I officially posted on the internet that the Pioneers (they are real) will replace the Boy Scouts. It will be coed, fully government funded, meet in public high schools... just memorize and follow the Pledge... and make sure everyone follows it.

 

Have a listen particularly when the Dad says "A scout is trustworthy".

 

Cold War propaganda of the 50's or a lesson about the Scout Law?

 

My $0.02,
 


Edited by RememberSchiff, 24 March 2017 - 06:02 AM.

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#60 Torchwood

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 07:40 AM

Today

 

http://www.scouting....ourPlanFAQ.aspx

 

If this is a hoax - about safety . . . . 

 

 

That is the same page that has been posted several times on this thread. We still have no official word from National, or even the individual Councils, about the demise of the T&AP or if the Councils have all been punked. Given the apparently widespread nature of this, there should be some official notification from the National Council and/or the individual Councils. The FAQ page about the demise has NO information that would mark it as a real BSA document. It has no logos and contains a few grammar errors that would make me think it might be a farce.I sawa post about it on the Old Colony Council's Facebook feed even before they sent an email to all Unit Leaders. There is no mention of it on their website, but when I saw the FB post, I emailed the Council office and asked- they said it was true. So what is the real story?


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