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Fighting Anti-Muslim Bigotry?


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#1 SSScout

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:21 AM

Faith based petition to show our solidarity with our Muslim friends:  Consider it, please.

 

https://action.groun...uslim-bigotry-1

 


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#2 Stosh

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:41 AM

....and what about anti-Christian bigotry?  Or maybe anti-Jewish bigotry?  Or maybe anti-racial bigotry?  Or maybe anti-(fill in the blank) bigotry? 

 

Until people get over their own self importance and need to see the world through the myopic vision of us and them, nothing's going to really change.

 

One changes the world one person at a time.  Either they teach them to hate or to love.  It's always a choice.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#3 qwazse

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:37 AM

Suggestion (esp. to Christians, but can generalize to anyone): invite your muslim friends and acquaintances (random strangers too) over to dinner. Go through the effort of getting meat from a halal (or lacking that, kosher) butcher.

 

This time of year, read the stories of the nativity from the koran as well of the gospel. (Suggestion: a gospel of Luke is available in English, but with the Islamic names of characters and places inserted, really makes for a great party gift.) Talk about Christmas traditions and where they come from. Love each other's kids.

 

More time consuming than clicking some links ... but generally more satisfying.


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#4 NJCubScouter

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 01:17 PM

I would just point out that the "pledge" itself (I guess that's the same as the "petition") does not actually mention any particular religion.  It says:
 
 
 

We call upon our elected officials to commit themselves to our nation’s founding ideals of religious freedom by taking a stand against bigotry and discrimination. Here’s what we are endorsing, and asking our elected officials to do the same:
 
The Pledge: A Commitment to Religious Freedom
 
I pledge and commit to the American people that I will uphold and defend the freedom of conscience and religion of all individuals by rejecting and speaking out, without reservation, against bigotry, discrimination, harassment, and violence based on religion or belief.


Who could disagree with that?
 
The explanatory material below the "pledge" does mention ""increased hate speech, hate crimes and discrimination against Muslims and persons perceived to be Muslim", but the pledge itself applies to all religions and all individuals.

Edited by NJCubScouter, 20 December 2016 - 01:18 PM.

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#5 David CO

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 01:23 PM

I would just point out that the "pledge" itself (I guess that's the same as the "petition") does not actually mention any particular religion.  It says:
 
 
 

Who could disagree with that?
 
The explanatory material below the "pledge" does mention ""increased hate speech, hate crimes and discrimination against Muslims and persons perceived to be Muslim", but the pledge itself applies to all religions and all individuals.

 

I could disagree with that.

 

I am certainly not going to pledge to not be biased against satanic cults.  When we over generalize with these politically correct statements, we sometimes fail to consider exactly who all they might be including.


Edited by David CO, 20 December 2016 - 01:34 PM.

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#6 NJCubScouter

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 05:44 PM

I think the answer is, if you don't like the petition, so don't sign the petition.  I won't sign it, not because I disagree with it, but because I don't think I have ever signed an online petition (and very few in real life) and I'm not about to start now.  I don't really see petitions as an effective way to get things done or get things changed.


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#7 CalicoPenn

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 06:44 PM

What about bigotry, discrimination, hatred and violence CAUSED by religion or belief?
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#8 MattR

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 09:24 PM

What about bigotry, discrimination, hatred and violence CAUSED by religion or belief?

What about it?

 

I agree with Stosh, human dignity applies to everyone. And a corollary might be that dignity requires empathy.


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#9 qwazse

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 09:30 PM

What about bigotry, discrimination, hatred and violence CAUSED by religion or belief?

As long as there is a fair accounting of the wrath that was stayed by said beliefs, there is a conversation to be had ...

preferably over a really good meal.


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#10 desertrat77

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 08:21 AM

@qwazse, the really good meal is key!   Breaking bread.

 

I've shared some incredible meals with Muslims in the Middle East and Central Asia during my deployments.   The hospitality and fellowship were equally superb.

 

Though we did not agree on every point, no one present felt the need to apologize for their beliefs, or grovel because of the sins committed by someone else of a particular faith.

 

Mutual respect.   Today's missing element.


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#11 cyclops

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 06:36 PM

I can go with the food idea. If the boys are fussing and fighting, dumping some carbs on them usually helps set a better tone.


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#12 cyclops

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 06:44 PM

I like the food thing. If the boys are fussing and fighting, dumping a load of carbs on them usually improves the tone.


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#13 mashmaster

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 10:58 PM

From Baden-Powell's Outlook.  There are some really great nuggets in there. Religion

VERY closely allied with education comes the important matter of religion. Though we hold no brief for any one form of belief over another, we see a way to helping all by carrying the same principle into practice as is now being employed in other branches of education, namely, to put the boys in touch with their objective, which in this case is to do their duty-to God through doing their duty to their neighbour. In helping others in doing daily good turns, and in rescuing those in danger, pluck, self-discipline, unselfishness, chivalry, become acquired, and quickly form part of their character.  These attributes of character, coupled with the right study of Nature, must of necessity help to bring the young soul in closer touch spiritually with God.

Personally, I have my own views as to the relative value of the instruction of children in Scripture history within the walls of the Sunday-school, and the value of Nature study and the practice of religion in the open air, but I will not impose my personal views upon others. I prefer to be guided by collective opinions of experienced men, and here a remarkable promise stands before us. Scouting has been described by various men and women of thought and standing as “a new religion” — three times I have read it this week. It is not, of course, a “new religion,” it is merely the application to religious training of the principle now approved for secular training — that of giving a definite objective and setting the child to learn and practise for himself — and that, I think everybody’s experiences will tell him, is the only training which really sticks by a man for good and ultimately forms part of his character.

January, 1912.


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#14 Ankylus

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 02:59 PM

Signing petitions is a waste of time. Just like putting the "coexist" bumper sticker on your car.

 

To paraphrase Chief Justice Roberts, the way to stop religious bigotry is to stop being a religious bigot. You know, by signing petitions for one faith while ignoring persecution of other faiths.

 

We have a number of Muslims in our mostly Christian troop (as well as Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, etc.) even though our CO is a Christian church. All our children have gone to school with Muslims for many years in a very religiously diverse neighborhood. My oldest son's latest college roommate is a Muslim. We have never had an issue in any context with any form of religious bigotry. Nor, should we ever have one, will such be tolerated.

 

That is the way to stop religious bigotry.


Edited by Ankylus, 11 January 2017 - 03:00 PM.

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#15 Stosh

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 05:50 PM

No, the way to stop religious bigotry is to have a troop of scouts, not a troop of mostly Christian troop (as well as Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, etc.  I'm the last person in the world that will champion political correctness, but when we quit pointing out our religious differences then that will stop religious bigotry.

 

I have in my extended family all kids of different people of different races, national origin, sexes, religious beliefs, ages, mental states, physical and mental challenges, but they are all family.  I guess if I was talking about Pat, I might distinguish between Pat my nephew and Pat my granddaughter.  Otherwise, just names are fine.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#16 Ankylus

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 03:44 PM

No, the way to stop religious bigotry is to have a troop of scouts, not a troop of mostly Christian troop (as well as Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, etc.  I'm the last person in the world that will champion political correctness, but when we quit pointing out our religious differences then that will stop religious bigotry.

 

I have in my extended family all kids of different people of different races, national origin, sexes, religious beliefs, ages, mental states, physical and mental challenges, but they are all family.  I guess if I was talking about Pat, I might distinguish between Pat my nephew and Pat my granddaughter.  Otherwise, just names are fine.

 

There is no discrepancy in our approaches. 

 

Edit: We have to acknowledge some religious differences because of, for example, dietary restrictions among the various religions. I don't see how you get around that if you have a religiously diverse troop. On the other hand, we treat it no differently than, for example, dietary restrictions from allergies. We can't just pretend these differences don't exist while accommodating them at the same time.


Edited by Ankylus, 23 January 2017 - 03:48 PM.

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#17 Stosh

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 04:44 PM

I have a vegetarian boy in my troop.  I have no idea what his religious affiliation is.  I have a boy that doesn't like hotdogs, I have no idea what his religious affiliation is.  I have a boy that doesn't eat peanuts or peanut butter.  I  have no idea if he's allergic to peanuts or just doesn't like peanuts.  I don't know his religious affiliation either. 

 

Truth be told, I have a boy that likes rice and so even though he doesn't look it, I'm thinking he's Chinese.  I have another scout who looks Oriental, but he has a German shepherd for a pet dog.

 

A friend of mine was born in Kenya to missionaries.  He has blond hair and blue eyes, but I'm thinking he's really African-American.  Not sure, he likes rice too.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#18 Ankylus

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 09:36 AM

I  have no idea if he's allergic to peanuts or just doesn't like peanuts.  I don't know his religious affiliation either.

 

That's too bad, because if he has a peanut allergy it could kill him. You need to know that so you can help him be vigilant and be prepared should he make a mistake and consume peanuts. Happened to a scout from our troop at Philmont. He survived, but it was a close thing. 


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#19 Stosh

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 02:43 PM

That's too bad, because if he has a peanut allergy it could kill him. You need to know that so you can help him be vigilant and be prepared should he make a mistake and consume peanuts. Happened to a scout from our troop at Philmont. He survived, but it was a close thing. 

All medical forms are scrutinized for medical issues and if the scout has a peanut allergy it would show up on the form.  However, if the boy doesn't eat peanuts because he doesn't like peanuts, that is not a medical issue, might be a religious issue, or simply he just doesn't like peanuts all of which will not show up on his medical form.

 

If dietary issues are not on a medical form, the abstinence of such food items could be religious or personal taste preference.  I don't know and it makes no never mind.  If Johnny isn't going to eat hotdogs on a campout, that's fine with me.  I don't eat hotdogs either, and I'm not a vegetarian and I have no religious issues with them, and I'm not allergic to them,  I just don't like them.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#20 NJCubScouter

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 03:09 PM

I don't eat hotdogs either, and I'm not a vegetarian and I have no religious issues with them, and I'm not allergic to them,  I just don't like them.

 

But they only have the nicest things to say about you.


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