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Scouting ties in the Trump Administration


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#21 qwazse

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 12:05 PM

Honorary Chief Senior Patrol Leader of BSA - someone in OA? ...

Already in place ... shared between the

  1. OA National Chief and
  2. President of the National Venturing Youth Cabinet.

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#22 RememberSchiff

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 12:56 PM

Replacing the adult Honorary President position with a Honorary Chief Senior Patrol Leader of BSA is sounding more and more desirable.


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#23 pchadbo

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 01:57 PM

 

Already in place ... shared between the

  1. OA National Chief and
  2. President of the National Venturing Youth Cabinet.

 

 

And for those who are neither eligible for, or in, the OA or Venturing?


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#24 NJCubScouter

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 03:12 PM

David:  Idealized nude neoclassical statuary is one thing.  But when you put a clothed figure in there, it seems kind of incongruous.  At last in that particular statue, in my opinion, it's no longer the idealized human form representing virtuous and heroic ideals.  Now it's a statue of some people wearing clothes and other people not wearing clothes.  The fact that one of them is a child (or adolescent) makes it... well, kind of creepy.  In my opinion.


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#25 David CO

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 03:37 PM

Yes an American artist would be a requirement as there is a recent trend to offshore statues, e.g., the recent Martin Luther King statue.

 

The proportion of the figures is wrong. The work appears to have been started for a different project with a scout added to move the piece out of the shop.

 

The symbolism that you mentioned , IMO could have been done more effectively and accurately (in the context of scouting) with contemporary American figures.

 

Nudity doesn't bother me, but why in a Scouting statue? Poor choice.

 

IMO, it is just poor re-purposed production art - an eyesore and an embarrassment for us, all the more apparent in a city with the Lincoln Memorial, Korean War Veterans, Vietnam Veterans Memorial,... well considered in symbolism, history, and form by talented artists. On our one trip to Washington, we skipped it.

 

But that's just my opinion.

 

Do you think a Cabinet member might become Honorary President of the BSA?

Do you think this Administration will have a greater interest in Scouting?

 

I might not agree with their politics, but I think there will be a genuine interest in Scouting maybe even a Cabinet fight as to who attends Jambo as opposed to phoning it in (sorry AT&T). :)

 

The proportions of the figures are not wrong.  It is intentional. By making the 2 figures larger than life, the artist is further conveying the message that they are meant to be seen as allegorical figures. 

 

Why in a scouting statue?  Why not?

 

I think they chose the neoclassical style because it was intended to be displayed in the Ellipse, where there are several other monuments built in this style.  

 

I believe the artwork is actually owned by the Smithsonian.  If the park service was to have it removed, I think it would have to be returned to them.


Edited by David CO, 15 December 2016 - 03:39 PM.

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#26 RememberSchiff

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 04:37 PM

The proportions of the figures are not wrong.  It is intentional. By making the 2 figures larger than life, the artist is further conveying the message that they are meant to be seen as allegorical figures. 

 

Why in a scouting statue?  Why not?

 

I think they chose the neoclassical style because it was intended to be displayed in the Ellipse, where there are several other monuments built in this style.  

 

I believe the artwork is actually owned by the Smithsonian.  If the park service was to have it removed, I think it would have to be returned to them.

I had an art teacher who told me "Bad art needs explanation, good art does not." It is very hard to explain this bad art. IMO, NJCubScouter did it best - creepy.

 

Regarding the nudity and its inappropriateness in a scouting statue, can you find any official scouting literature or website which pictures this Boy Scout Commemorative Tribute Memorial? Maybe the Scout Handbook? Sculpture MB? Art MB? Citizenship in Nation MB? Guide to Safe Scouting?

 

Scouts paid for this and gave it to US government so the government could sell it as surplus junk.  :) 

https://www.nps.gov/...ut-memorial.htm

 

Bad art aside, I am more interested in thoughts about how the Trump Administration will interact with Scouting.


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#27 skeptic

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 04:41 PM

Actually, much of Seton's work, especially that on wolves of Canada, is still a good resource today.  His detailed art work on the wolves is some of the most accurate there is and was accomplished by serious field studies.


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#28 qwazse

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 04:43 PM

And for those who are neither eligible for, or in, the OA or Venturing?

They are still represented on a national level by these individuals and their respective cabinets.

 

I will also add that, although these (and the various council, area, and regional positions of responsibility) are roles that most of our seasoned scouts should aspire to, they are a bit of a side-show to the pinnacle scouting experience: hiking and camping independently with your mates. Do that first, and other honors and positions of support/promotion will begin to have meaning.


Edited by qwazse, 15 December 2016 - 04:49 PM.

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#29 RememberSchiff

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 05:12 PM

As part of Good Turn for America, there was this 2008 "legal" agreement between the BSA and National Park Service. I cannot recall that it had any program impact in my council. As I recall the problem with the Resource Stewardship Scout Ranger program was park admission/membership. It was just less hassle and cheaper to camp at a state park or scout camp. Maybe Secretary of Interior Ryan Zinke could revisit.

 

http://www.scouting....OUNPSSigned.pdf

https://www.nps.gov/...er-Brochure.pdf


Edited by RememberSchiff, 15 December 2016 - 05:28 PM.

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#30 RememberSchiff

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 08:41 PM

Vice President-elect Mike Pence spoke at the 21st annual Governor's Luncheon for Scouting to say farewell as Indiana Governor.

 

He said he had been a Cub Scout but that Scouting impacted him much more as a father.

"To see the confidence in my son Michael grew as he wore that uniform when he went out and went out with his troop. And I saw his character grow. It was a very important part of his life and I'm proud to say he wears a different uniform today as a second lieutenant in the United States Marine Corps and the values he learned in scouting are the same values he lives out today."

 

This fundraiser event raises more than a million dollars each year for Scouting.

 

http://www.wave3.com...outs-fundraiser


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#31 gumbymaster

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 12:04 PM


Regarding the nudity and its inappropriateness in a scouting statue, can you find any official scouting literature or website which pictures this Boy Scout Commemorative Tribute Memorial? Maybe the Scout Handbook? Sculpture MB? Art MB? Citizenship in Nation MB? Guide to Safe Scouting?

 

 

As I recall, it is a waypoint for several (if not all four) of the History of Scouting Trail hikes.

 

http://www.ncacbsa.o...ents/host-hike/

 

 

Does Boys Life count?

http://boyslife.org/...washington-d-c/


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#32 RememberSchiff

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 12:49 PM

As I recall, it is a waypoint for several (if not all four) of the History of Scouting Trail hikes.

 

http://www.ncacbsa.o...ents/host-hike/

 

 

Does Boys Life count?

http://boyslife.org/...washington-d-c/

 

Yes Boy's Life counts. I appreciate the courteous camera angle. :)  Gumbymaster, you win a rubber chicken dinner.

 

scouthistory.jpg


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#33 RememberSchiff

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 08:31 AM

Back on topic.

 

My predictions/hopes:

- There will be more in-person appearances at scout fundraisers and events to our benefit. Some may argue that it will be political self-serving by the new administration, but IMO it would be an improvement over past administrations ignoring scouting due to perceived political correctness.

- We could use a better working service relationship with the US Park Service maybe centered on a modified Hornaday Award. Work for free access?

 

My $0.02,


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#34 David CO

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 10:48 AM

Ah, but if our next president were to actually do all that, would you fellows be willing to give him the credit due him?

 

My biggest concern is that any in-person appearances to promote scouting would be protested and disrupted by left wing agitators.  Scouting doesn't need that.

 

My hope is that we can get scouting back in the schools. I would like to see a real push for school chartered Boy Scout units.


Edited by David CO, 17 December 2016 - 11:29 AM.

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#35 RememberSchiff

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 12:11 PM

The times we live in. I was impressed with FBI Director James Comey politeness and professionalism during heated hearings and interviews - his "Boy Scout image*" as some media called it. Maybe that should be a new public role for Scouting - help restore civility in the US.  IMO much harder than other scouting roles: helping Smokey, disaster relief, physical fitness, STEM, even leadership.

 

I agree we need to get scouting back in schools.

 

*To my knowledge, James Comey was not a scout.


Edited by RememberSchiff, 17 December 2016 - 12:13 PM.

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#36 hiker67

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 12:28 PM

"we've uncovered the hidden Boy Scout influence on [the Trump] administration"

 

At 14:00 (you can skip to 14:00)

 

http://www.pbs.org/w...cks-us-election


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#37 MattR

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 09:39 AM

"we've uncovered the hidden Boy Scout influence on [the Trump] administration"

 

Unfortunately, they laughed at this quote. Again, the image is that Boy Scouts are quaint. It seems that character is about as important as hair color.


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#38 Rick_in_CA

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 09:57 PM

The proportions of the figures are not wrong.  It is intentional. By making the 2 figures larger than life, the artist is further conveying the message that they are meant to be seen as allegorical figures.

I think the memorial is really ugly. I have no problem with neoclassical style, or the nudity. Nor is it that the adult figures are oversized. It's that the figures are badly realized and distorted. Enough to enter the uncanny valley. The result just looks wrong.

 

I've seen plenty of neoclassical sculpture, and they don't usually appear distorted like this. These simply look badly done.


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#39 hiker67

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 10:25 PM

Unfortunately, they laughed at this quote. Again, the image is that Boy Scouts are quaint. It seems that character is about as important as hair color.

I think they were laughing because, while Trump may want to associate with people in Scouting, his controversial background tends to run against the principles of Scouting.


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#40 David CO

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 12:03 AM

I think they were laughing because, while Trump may want to associate with people in Scouting, his controversial background tends to run against the principles of Scouting.

 

Unlike a president who had used illegal drugs throughout much of his teenage years, Donald Trump led a spit and polish life in military school, played sports, and worked construction during the summer. If he had had the time, I think Donald Trump would have made a very good Boy Scout.

 

No, I think they are laughing because they are liberal pundits who like to mock the other half of the country.


Edited by David CO, 19 December 2016 - 12:32 AM.

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