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BoR Tests ... Boy Balks

board of review testing scout skills

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#41 fred johnson

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 01:48 PM

I'm not gonna come down so hard on adult leaders who mean well.

Yeah, I can understand.

Being blind-sided brings out some bad stuff. That's okay.

Fully agree. It's less acceptable and more understandable. More along the lines of we learn from our mistakes. It's hard to learn how to behave or respond until you have been in the situation.

I am concerned that there will be that able-bodied scout who gets tested one too many times and will grow to avoid advancement (or scouting in general) because they think the BoR is petty.

This is absolutely my number one concern. I've seen it happen multiple times.
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#42 Stosh

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 03:36 PM

I don't think the scouts will view the BOR as petty, but I'm sure that once the respect for the Board is gone, so is the boy.  A Board can undo years worth of work in just one night of being stupid, uniformed, or just plain mean.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#43 NJCubScouter

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 04:33 PM

I don't think the scouts will view the BOR as petty, but I'm sure that once the respect for the Board is gone, so is the boy.  A Board can undo years worth of work in just one night of being stupid, uniformed, or just plain mean.

 
Oh, I don't know, sometimes I am uniformed on nights when we are doing BOR's.  However, I am rarely accused (at least in a BOR) of being uninformed.
 
Sorry about that; I almost never point out typos, and I've made my fair share myself, but I couldn't resist on that one.   :)
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#44 Stosh

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 04:48 PM

:)


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Stosh

 

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#45 Eagledad

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 10:34 AM

I don't understand this fear of scouts loosing respect from one challenging experience. We are scout leaders. We have the power to change and influence young minds. People screw up, especially adults. It's how we react to the screw ups that influences those around us. 

 

That being said, I believe humilty is the most powerful reaction one could observe from others. In fact, I also believe observations of humility are becoming rarer in today's culture. If the youth don't see humility in their role models, they are less likely to express it in their own lives.

 

Barry


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"Experience is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first, then the lesson."


#46 qwazse

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 09:13 PM

Barry, at was meant to be a +1. Thumbs and iPads don't mix.
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#47 Beavah

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 04:33 PM

Yah, hats off to yeh for a nice resolution, @qwazse.

 

His buddies (all from a smaller troop of older scouts who were absorbed by the large troop of younger scouts) have a few gripes.

 

This is what struck me from all your description, eh?

 

Boys who spend a few years as 10-13 year olds in a troop get to thinkin' that their troop is the one that does things right.   That troop becomes their native culture, and just like humans of any age, our first instinct when travelin' is to compare what we find to our native culture.  Mostly to point out what's wrong with the new place!

 

Same with adult leaders transitioning to Boy Scouting and findin' out it ain't the same as Cub Scouting.  They find all of da thing that are wrong first.  

 

So from afar, I'm suspecting that da real underlyin' issue is that the "absorption" of those older guys into the bigger troop is the root cause.  Especially since yeh say the bigger troop was younger in age.  

 

Gotta get the lads to move from what the adults in the new troop are doin' "wrong" to an attitude of "I'm in a place that's different, what can I do to help?"  If yeh succeed, it's a good lesson and habit for life.

 

Beavah


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#48 TAHAWK

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 05:30 PM

One of my venturers had a suspended Life BoR at his troop last week because, when tested, he couldn't tie a bowline, didn't have complete documentation of his service hours or a good explanation of what he did in his PoR. So they basically told him to come back better organized and demonstrate his skills by tying that one knot.

 

Violates BSA rules wherever and by whoever done.

 

8.0.1.1 Not a Retest or “Examination”

 

Though one reason for a board of review is to help ensure the Scout did what he was supposed to do to meet the requirements, it shall become neither a retest or “examination,” nor a challenge of his knowledge. In most cases it should, instead, be a celebration of accomplishment. Remember, it is more about the journey. A badge recognizes what a young man has done toward achieving the primary goal of personal growth. See “Personal Growth Is the Primary Goal,” 2.0.0.3. It is thus more about the learning experience than it is about the specific skills learned. See also “Mechanics of Advancement: In Boy Scouting and Varsity Scouting,” 4.2.0.0.

 

 


4.2.1.2 The Scout Is Tested

The unit leader authorizes those who may test and pass the Scout on rank requirements. They might include his patrol leader, senior patrol leader, an assistant unit leader, another Scout, or the unit leader himself. Merit badge counselors teach and test him on requirements for merit badges.


Edited by TAHAWK, 27 December 2016 - 05:31 PM.

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#49 Stosh

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 06:48 PM

No amount of breath mints are going to get this bad taste out of one's mouth.  The adults were wrong and there's no amount of "fixing" going to make it any different.  The boy could have stayed quiet and accepted the decision, he could have gone off on a rant in front of them, he could have done all sorts of things and it wouldn't change a thing because the adults were wrong.

 

The only thing that would have made this situation right was an apology and signing off on the BOR and that required maturity from the adults, not the scout.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#50 qwazse

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 10:49 PM

@Beavah, mergers are never pleasant. I think the new troop did not really rely on the brain trust of the older troop's more seasoned adults. Son #2 had aged out of the old troop, so I had no "skin" in the game. I sat on a couple of BoRs to provide an example, but after that I directed my attention to outdoor program.

@TAHAWK, we can recite rules ad nauseum, but when adults think the rules are stupid, they won't be followed. At some point, I hope to be around a fire with these committee members, and then be in a position to warn them that they are skating on thin ice with their boys.

@Stosh, Mea culpa for not being on the troop committee and extracting an apology. But I have a crew that is barely holding itself together. Being litigious takes more time than I'm prepared to spend. So, there's nothing for it but to delegate it to the ASM, pinch my nose at the stink, and play a long game.

 

At least, the boy knows he's in the right, he knows that he can choose another unit to advance under. Knowledge is power.


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#51 cyclops

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 12:27 PM

I sorta see Stosh's point. That bitter taste is going to remain for a long time after the satisfaction of attaining rank wears off. OTOH, that bitter taste is also a valuable incentive to avoid something like that in the future by being better prepared. Hey, that would make a great motto: "Be Prepared". Some youth organization ought to adopt that as their motto.


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#52 TAHAWK

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 06:05 PM

@TAHAWK, we can recite rules ad nauseum, but when adults think the rules are stupid, they won't be followed. At some point, I hope to be around a fire with these committee members, and then be in a position to warn them that they are skating on thin ice with their boys.

 

Agree 100%.  But I have had a lot of experience that the adults breaking the rules typically do not know what the rules are.  znor do thier Committees who are supposed to oversee their service.  That situation, in turn, is due to weak training following from: 1) weak training materials; 2) lack of recognition at the council and national level of the importance of training; and 3) lack of recognition of training efforts by Scouters.  (Our considerably-larger-than-average council's local Scout Shops [2]  do not sell four Scouter's Keys or Scouter's Training Awards  - combined - a year, and those awards are not part of district or council awards dinners or roundtables.

 

The Scoutmaster I left two years ago has never attended a minute of training - even do-it-yourself training.  He does not own the SM Handbook or PLHB and would never dream of reading the Guide to Advancement ["The what?"]  He believes "All you need to be a Scoutmaster is to like kids." Once a 3rd Grade teacher, he relives the joy of those years with a Boy Scout Troop. ["Time for recess.  Who has the kickball?"]  So perfect uniform or the BoR does not even take place.  So retesting on every requirement for the rank at issue and many requirements from prior ranks.  Now add that his UC, who only attends Eagle Courts of Honor, got him the Scoutmaster of the Year award for 2011.  Not s prayer.


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