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Can a Council take over a tree stand?


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#21 krikkitbot

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 09:42 AM

Thank you for all of the input. It's not actually a tree stand. I was using that as an example in order to maintain some degree of anonymity until we have a chance to meet with the district executive (or whatever his new title is). 


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#22 CalicoPenn

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 10:01 AM

Is your COR or the head of your sponsoring organization aware of this request and meeting?  If not, make sure they get up to speed - and then invite them to the meeting - where, when they DE (or whatever his title is) tells you that you need to give your fundraiser to another unit, the IH or COR politely tells him to go pound sand and to never, ever interfere with the operations of the unit again.

 

The only way this guy can take your fundraiser is if you let him - and you just don't let him - if he insists, you go over his head to his boss - the Scout Executive, by e-mail, with a copy to the Council President.


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#23 RichardB

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 10:38 AM

Well, I got this far thinking "tree stand" had to do with deer hunting.

 

I was confused as well and since hunting is not part of the Boy Scout program I was really confused.    Some councils do have organized hunting and sell trespass licenses on their properties.   


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#24 RichardB

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 10:40 AM

For those that ignore the program, policies, etc. of the BSA in relation to fundraising.    I'd point you to the Scouter Code of Conduct, specifically 5A.   http://www.scouting...._of_Conduct.pdf 


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#25 The Blancmange

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 03:11 PM

While it may be possible for a council to "take over" a fundraiser as described, they really ought to think about the message this sends and the precedent it sets.   Some other things to point out to someone considering this:

 

1.) A unit does not have to participate in council-sponsored popcorn sales;

2.) A unit does not have to allow a council representative to give a Friends of Scouting presentation;

3.) A unit does not have to patronize a council-owned camp.  

 

Is that really the kind of atmosphere they want to promote?


Edited by The Blancmange, 14 December 2016 - 03:11 PM.

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#26 frankpalazzi

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 04:42 PM

A council or a district "taking over" a fundraiser?  I had to laugh.

 

There would be a few choice words exchanged if they even attempted or suggested doing this to my unit. Sailors would blush, trust me.

 

I can only imagine seeing our IH and a few dozen members of our CO, battle-hardened veterans, showing up on the scene of this situation.

 

Our fundraising activities are no one's business except ours and the COs.  We don't file a fundraising application because of the questions on it.  Those questions are no one's  business. Period.  We raise what we need, and spend what we raise.  The CO owns the troop and the funds, and the CO is the only entity we share our financial information with.  Often times, they are our best customers! 

 

The district and council get their fair share from us through registrations, rechartering, summer camp fees, off-season camp fees, district camporees and Klondike,  and FOS contributions.  They are not going to meddle in our independent fundraising efforts.


Edited by frankpalazzi, 14 December 2016 - 04:45 PM.

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#27 oldisnewagain1

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 11:54 AM

While it may be possible for a council to "take over" a fundraiser as described, they really ought to think about the message this sends and the precedent it sets.   Some other things to point out to someone considering this:

 

1.) A unit does not have to participate in council-sponsored popcorn sales;

2.) A unit does not have to allow a council representative to give a Friends of Scouting presentation;

3.) A unit does not have to patronize a council-owned camp.  

 

Is that really the kind of atmosphere they want to promote?

 

4. A unit does not have to participate in JTE

5. A unit does not have to participate in District/Council events


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#28 The Latin Scot

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 04:11 PM

While it may be possible for a council to "take over" a fundraiser as described ...

But that's just the thing - it isn't possible. At least, not without the consent of the Unit, which hopefully they would never offer. They don't have the authority to do so, and I have read the entirety of the BSA policies and guidelines looking for such a caveat. As far as I can find, there isn't one, so keep your fund-raiser, and don't give an inch if your district or council tries to force your hand. Official policy is on your side.


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There is no such word as "Webelo." 

The only proper singular of Webelos Scouts is ... WEBELOS SCOUT!  


#29 clemlaw

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 05:58 PM

I was confused as well and since hunting is not part of the Boy Scout program I was really confused.    Some councils do have organized hunting and sell trespass licenses on their properties.   

 

I thought it was something like flagpole sitting.  Scouts sit in the tree stand for X hours in exchange for pledges.  I thought maybe the Scout Executive was demanding to sit there instead of the scouts.  :-)


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#30 Stosh

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 09:59 PM

:) Hunting can be part of the Venturing program.


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#31 SSScout

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 10:15 AM

""Follow the money""

 

The issue here has been and will be where the money to run Scouting comes from.  The Unit (Pack, Troop, Crew, Ship)  will need some corporate money for patches, camp fees, boat maintenance, etc.  The Council needs money for salaries , camp maintenance,  property taxes (if any),  Xerox repairs, etc.

 

If the Unit sells Popcorn, the Council gets a share by contract.  If the Unit sells Christmas trees or Hannakah  candles or canned peanuts or flag pole rental, the Council gets naught ,save for the Unit's charity and thoughtfulness. Hence the "begging" of FoS, and  Foremost Eagle Dinners and such.

 

Districts are all volunteer (!) and must operate their activities under the Council fiscal imprimatur on a "cash" basis, zero accounting.  Pity the poor CSDC Director that actually shows an overage in the black, no "free " pizza parties for the Staff, if the Council  Program Director is under pressure to show a (shudder) profit.


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#32 krikkitbot

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 06:15 PM

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We met with the District Executive and the issue was resolved without any problems. I think that the way the message was conveyed to the committee made it seem worse than it actually was. 

 

Thank you for all of the input from the group. 


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#33 CalicoPenn

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 01:50 PM

That's it?  A bland "we met with the DE and the issue is resolved"?  No details?  Now how the heck are we supposed to know if our high dudgeon was worth it?


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#34 KenD500

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 02:56 PM

For those that ignore the program, policies, etc. of the BSA in relation to fundraising.    I'd point you to the Scouter Code of Conduct, specifically 5A.   http://www.scouting...._of_Conduct.pdf

Until now, I have never seen or heard of this.


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#35 krikkitbot

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 04:13 PM

That's it?  A bland "we met with the DE and the issue is resolved"?  No details?  Now how the heck are we supposed to know if our high dudgeon was worth it?

 

That's about as high drama as the meeting was.

DE: "Do you want to do this as a District activity?"

Committee: "No"

DE: "Ok, next agenda item."

 

Like I said, I think the people who told us the district wanted to take over were reading too much into it. 


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#36 Deaf Scouter

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 11:07 PM

Until now, I have never seen or heard of this.

Ken.. the Scouter's Code of Conduct just recently came out January 13, 2017  check out Bryan On Scouting's article:  http://blog.scouting...ode-of-conduct/


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#37 TAHAWK

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Posted 03 February 2017 - 01:50 PM

God needed Ten Commandments.  BSA needs hundreds.  Makes it tough to teach "health and safety" at IOLS with a straight face.

 

What legal commentators know is that excessive numbers of rules damages respect for all rules.  Our latest program guy at council dumped the camp "127 Thou Shall Nots" accumulated by his (fired)  predecessor in favor of the Oath and Law !  Just one of the many steps he took to totally turn around the summer camp program from near death to filled to capacity in four years.  Sadly, BSA is trending in the other direction - at high speed.


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#38 krikkitbot

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 10:15 AM

Well, maybe the panic of a few weeks ago was warranted. The same Scout DE is wanting this fundraiser that our troop has been planning to be run as a council event in which the council gets to "administer" the proceeds. 


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#39 Col. Flagg

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 10:50 AM

Well, maybe the panic of a few weeks ago was warranted. The same Scout DE is wanting this fundraiser that our troop has been planning to be run as a council event in which the council gets to "administer" the proceeds. 

 

@krikkitbot, how can council "take over"? Can't you guys just plan your event and run it? Is council going to show up and take over? How would they realistically do that?

 

Or are they just saying you can't do it?


Edited by Col. Flagg, 05 April 2017 - 10:50 AM.

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#40 TAHAWK

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 10:55 AM

Your COR is a voting member of Council.  The DE is a low-level employee of Council  - for the moment.   Have your COR ask the

the DE's supervisor's supervisor what the DE is trying to pull.


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