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#21 Oldscout448

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 06:20 AM

That the green one or the brown one?
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#22 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 06:50 AM

I believe the '58 is brown covered, but don't quote me on it. :) My 196? fieldbook was green covered, if I remember correctly. I read it so much the cover came off :p .  Oldest has used it, but cannot have it. I am however afraid to let the middle read it as I already know he's going to wood tools and fires :D


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"Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt


#23 blw2

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 12:59 PM

I am firmly on the side of re-writing the BSHB section on fire tending/building/extinction.

 

Here is my re-write....

 

The Five Things Needed For A Camp Fire
In school , one is taught three things are needed for a fire:  Oxygen, fuel, and heat. 
For a Scout, there are FIVE things needed.  How do they compare with the three from your science class?   Play the “What If” game.   

Number one, before anything else:
1)  The Means To Extinguish The Fire.   Before anything else, how will you put it out?  Water, shovel, rake, sand/dirt.  Have sufficient means and tools collected.  Is it out?  Test firebed with the BACK of your hand… Douse, stir and douse again.
2)  A Safe Area.   Remember that 10’  diameter cleared area.  Use an established fire pit.  If a “new” fire, remember your Leave No Trace guidelines:  Fold back the sod, save the  sod to cover the burned on bare soil area.   Use an above ground fire holder:  old wheelbarrow, oil drum, charcoal grill bed, etc.
3)   Safe Atmosphere:  Land owners’ permission?  Park Ranger’s permission?  Is there a Drought?  No Fire Ban?  Make it as SMALL as necessary, not as BIG as you can!
4)  Collect Fuel Before Lighting :  Tinder, kindling, fire wood.  It is hard to stop cooking to collect more wood if you run low.  Set things up carefully before attempting to light.  
5)  The Means To Ignite The Fire:  Be Prepared!   Practice in your back yard before you are on the trail. Ceremonial fire?   Practice it first before the big night!  “No, I thought YOU had the flint and steel!”.

 

 

Look to your old 1958  Green Bar Bill Fieldbook....

 

well from the standpoint of NLP, I like that your 1st point fully cements the endeavor with a positive attitude....

"A FIRE, I WILL create."


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#24 DuctTape

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 09:27 AM

I believe it was the brown cover. I have some at home. I will look.

IIRC, the organization of the different "chapters" (I do not recall what they were called) act as a great template for a patrol to use as an adventure guide. It proceeds from the simple to more adventurous in small steps. Could you imagine if a patrol followed it in order; wow. What a great sequence of adventures... real scouting.
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#25 TAHAWK

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 10:20 AM

When I was a young Sprout, outdoor program training once taught about these:

 

Scout Fire 

Hunter's Fire

Rock Fire

Reflector Fire

Trench Fire

Tepee fire

Backlog Fire

Council Fire

Log Cabin Fire

Dakota Hole Fire

 

I never found that the Reflector reflected much, but it was sure good for blocking wind.

 

Not many logs around for the Hunter's Fire in SoCal, but lots of rocks for variations of the Rock Fire.  We were encouraged to use rocks already blackened.

 

Somewhat surprised that the Dakota Hole appeared as late as 2008 (Boys' Life), given LNT


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#26 DuctTape

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 12:54 PM

Digging a hole is not necessarily a LNT violation. It depends on the environment in which one is in. A dakota fire hole is awesome when one needs to block wind and maximize efficiency of fuel. Think about snow conditions. Dig a hole in the snow, then the air hole. Line the fire hole with stout logs. Build the small cook fire on the ground in the hole... That is just one possible use. Using a tripod to suspend a cookpot into the hole makes it even better. Imagine the boys telling everyone how they cooked their food over a fire in a hole dug into the snow.
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#27 Stosh

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 04:19 PM

I have personally seen Civil War Reenactors with massive fire set-ups, horses, trenching around tents, etc. everything that would make a seasoned LNT Scouter gasp and gnash their teeth.  Yet one week after the event, no one could tell anyone had used the park for a 3-day campsite.  It's amazing what one can do when they know how to do it correctly.


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#28 DuctTape

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 04:28 PM

I just got home and looked. I have a 1952 and 1955 Fieldbooks. Both brown covers. The "chapters" were called "pow wows".
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#29 Petey091

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 08:00 PM

I think one of the problems with scouts and fires is that in today's world our scouts just don't use matches on a daily basis anymore. In my Grandmother home to use the stove you had to light a match. Each room had a gas heater and to stay warm you had to light a match. My father smoked a pipe so we had matches laying around the house. To light the charcoal grill you had to use a match. Today's kids have become so bubble wrapped that a match is foreign to them. I can't tell you how many times I have watched a scout use up a box of matches trying to light a camp stove.
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#30 Stosh

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 08:10 AM

I think one of the problems with scouts and fires is that in today's world our scouts just don't use matches on a daily basis anymore. In my Grandmother home to use the stove you had to light a match. Each room had a gas heater and to stay warm you had to light a match. My father smoked a pipe so we had matches laying around the house. To light the charcoal grill you had to use a match. Today's kids have become so bubble wrapped that a match is foreign to them. I can't tell you how many times I have watched a scout use up a box of matches trying to light a camp stove.

 

Not just parents but everyone from CPS to government schools bends over backwards putting some imaginary safety bubble around the kids.  "Don't play with matches!!"  When was the last time anyone saw a "book of matches"?  With the campaign against smokers, even the BIC lighters are becoming a rarity in today's world.

 

I don't smoke, but I do carry a lighter.  It's called "Be Prepared."


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#31 DuctTape

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 09:08 AM

Learning to do things for themselves in the out of doors is kind of the purpose. It matters not whether they use matches in their normal everyday life. They probably don't set up tents on a regular basis at home either. Nor use an axe or paddle a canoe. We provide the opportunity for all of these things and more. At least we should. They begin as tenderfoots (not the rank, but as one with limited skill) and through scouting we help develop their skills and understandings that they did not previously have. Sure civilization has changed, but even when match lit stoves were common in homes it didn't mean the boys ever lit them. Sometimes in scouting is the first time they swung an axe even though there is one in their garage.
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#32 blw2

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 09:23 AM

....Sometimes in scouting is the first time they swung an axe even though there is one in their garage.

making Scouting even more relevant as a growth and experience tool, in at least that regard.

 

As a kid even, I always hated sitting through some basic introductory lesson that I already knew about.  I remember a lot of that in scouts.... and as a Scouter I'm still seeing it often too....

At least it finally becomes an interesting and maybe fun activity if it's the first time they've done it!


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#33 Oldscout448

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 09:38 PM

On the subject of matches, do strike anywhere matches still exist?

We used to set one in a log head up and challenge the scouts to grab a hatchet and light it with one swing.
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#34 TAHAWK

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 09:47 PM

Strike anywhere matches exist.  They are just hard to find in many areas and expensive to buy on the Net.  The quality is also not very high for the most common brand - Diamond.

 

We can find them here in Ohio in small stores catering to the Amish.


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#35 Stosh

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 08:16 AM

They stopped shipping strike anywhere matches in large quantities in that when the semi-truck hit a good bounce or had an accident, the matches in the cases often times started on fire.  I don't know how they get around shipping in small quantities other than the fact that one or two boxes might not cause as big a fire as a whole case.

 

It is a bit more sane than the fact that the old match books had the scratch pad on the front and now, for safety purposes, it is on the back.  No more one-handed match lighting.... :confused:


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Stosh

 

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#36 qwazse

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 07:49 AM

... Sometimes in scouting is the first time they swung an axe even though there is one in their garage.

:)
Yesterday Son #1 and I were helping each other on our respective houses. In my yard we need to cut a rope, Having left our knives at his house, I went and grabbed my hatchet from the garage.

He said, "Is that thing even sharp?"
I said, "Since you guys have stopped putting it away with dents in it, yeah."
Before he could walk to the back door for a kitchen knife ... THWACK ... Rope split, and old 4x4 with one more small nick.

Pity we don't have matches that I could have struck off the ax head. I would have cut and fused with the same tool.
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#37 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 03:55 PM

Strike anywhere matches exist.  They are just hard to find in many areas and expensive to buy on the Net.  The quality is also not very high for the most common brand - Diamond.

 

We can find them here in Ohio in small stores catering to the Amish.

 

 

I told a friend of mine how hard I long I've been searching for strike anywhere matches. He found a place and got 2 boxes for me, and 5 for him. Agri Supply is the companym and they are located in the following places


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"Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt


#38 ianwilkins

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 09:44 AM

 

I told a friend of mine how hard I long I've been searching for strike anywhere matches.

 

What? You have trouble getting strike anywhere matches? You mean the likes of which Clint Eastwood would strike off his stubble in cowboy films? (Yeah, may be misremembering a little here, but he was hard as nails so...)

 

Well there's a thing.

 

We can get them anywhere that sells cigarettes, brand of Swan Vestas usually. Can light them off most hard rough surfaces. Brick, some rock, metal. Of course, when we got them as scouts on summer camp, you went around trying to find things that you could light them on, until you had none left to light the fire. Oops.


Edited by ianwilkins, 07 November 2016 - 09:45 AM.

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#39 TAHAWK

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 09:56 AM

Only brand sold in this area is Diamond.  About 20% useful only to bundle as fire-starters -no or pinpoint head.


Edited by TAHAWK, 07 November 2016 - 09:56 AM.

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