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Goodbye Camporees, WFW's hello SAW's?

advancement weekend

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#21 Tampa Turtle

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 12:34 PM

*sigh* sometimes there is not enough duct tape in all of scouting for my head...


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#22 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 05:01 PM

A few years back, someone on the district level decided that the camporee should be an "advancoree." Only 2 troops liked the format, and both are heavily advancement oriented. What's interesting is that the troop that incorporates advancement in their program the most wanted a traditional competition camporee. (an aside, while they do not work on MBs at meetings, they are constantly having honest to goodness MB sessions almost every other weekend for those interested. The CO views Scouting as outreach ministry and have a cadre of adults whodonate a lot of their time and treasusure to the Scouts)  And 1 troop boycotted teh event.


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#23 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 06:51 PM

Just had my camporee. With the exception of one event, Canoe Orienteering, it was an overall hit.  Scouts liked the competition format. Although it was suggested, don't remember if it was a Scout or adult who commented, but whenthe topic of doing geocaching as an event came up, there was  talk about getting instruction sessions instead of a competition so that everyone could actually do it.

 

Another comment, more for next years, is possibly have a static display covering the theme (emergency preparedness/wilderness survival)


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#24 RememberSchiff

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 05:48 AM

Just had my camporee. With the exception of one event, Canoe Orienteering, it was an overall hit.  Scouts liked the competition format. Although it was suggested, don't remember if it was a Scout or adult who commented, but whenthe topic of doing geocaching as an event came up, there was  talk about getting instruction sessions instead of a competition so that everyone could actually do it.

 

Another comment, more for next years, is possibly have a static display covering the theme (emergency preparedness/wilderness survival)

 

Hurray, congratulations!

 

I like the addition of  "learning" stations and also like tiered (by skill) competition as is done with an orienteering event. I have proposed a camporee competition scored as followed, but the majority wanted MB's and a Webelos program. 

 

All patrols visit all stations.

Yellow patrols are scored only at T-SC skilled and game stations

Orange patrols are scored only at T-SC-FC skilled and game stations

Green patrols are scored at ALL stations and are also timed.

Award top Yellow, Orange, Green patrols. Overall winner has highest average of scored stations.

 

My $0.02,


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#25 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 09:05 AM

I tried to focus on T-2-1 skills. Had some traditional games, tomahawk throwing and Kim's Game for fun. And also did a bear bag event.

 

Canoe Orienteering was a disaster. I admit I had it set up as a challenge with false control points, i.e.  2 points within 20' - 30'of each other; one point on the bearing BUT 200'+ from the correct control point etc.  No one actually completed it as some patrols got lost after going to the wrong control point taking bearings. It appeared that they could not understand that they could go back to the last verifiable control point and reshoot the azimuth. That concerns me a little. Especially since BSA appears to be pushing GPS usage not only at the Boy Scout level, but the Cub Scout level.

 

But what scared the heck out of me was one patrol and first aid. This was a venture patrol with Star and Life Scouts. One scenario used was based upon the 2010 jamboree electrocution incident. After killing off two of their guys, the finally figured out to kill the power. But then the patrol could not figure out what to do. While they attempted to treat the original victim, victims 2 and 3 were completely ignored. During the debriefing after they finished the scenario (they essentially gave up), the comment made by one Life Scout was, "I don't remember how to do this [CPR], I took First Aid my first year at camp." Apparently the rest of the folks in the patrol were in the same boat, except Victim 2. He had recently certified as a BSA / ARC Lifeguard, and had the certifications. Apparently he was the one assigned to do direct First Aid, but when he got electrocuted, it hit the fan. 


Edited by Eagle94-A1, 31 October 2016 - 09:23 AM.

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#26 qwazse

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 02:57 PM

In Mr. Q's warped world, incompletion = success.

Nobody needs to know that they know what they already know.

Everybody needs to know what it is that they don't already know.

 

I've named my open field compass course "tortured soul". Each control has a deck of cards with headings to each of the other controls (including the entry/exit control). Read the top card, set your compass, put the card on the bottom of the deck, proceed to the drawn control. Repeat until you have visited all controls, then continue the course until you draw a card to the exit control.

 

I'm not well loved for that one, but toward the end, each scout can quickly gauge a heading precisely before even setting the compass.

 

If you have the staff, repeat the canoe course next year. I'm sure there will be one or two patrols who will want to take vengeance on that one. Besides, regarding your theme, zombies, I'm told, don't swim.


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#27 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 08:14 PM

At the PLC I had Saturday night, the compass course was a unanimous 'NO" for next year. Heck it was the butt of some jokes at campfire.

 

True story about the "wet" portion of the compass course. We only did 2 bearings on the lake: one on the opposite side, and one on the deck where they started. Several patrols did not realize that their bearing to land was 180o from the bearing they shot to get to the control point. So the control point they started at was the control point they should have wrote down on the score card.

 

Actually one idea we got for next year's compass course is using no compass. Yep have to use either the watch, shadow stick, or other method, and bearings will be limited to the 8 main points.  BUT you got a point about zombies and water ;)


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#28 Stosh

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 07:02 PM

Instead of a compass course, do a patrol Rogain course.

 

http://www.rogaining.com/


Edited by Stosh, 01 November 2016 - 07:05 PM.

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#29 qwazse

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 08:14 PM

Instead of a compass course, do a patrol Rogain course.
 
http://www.rogaining.com/

Or, as the scoutmaster of my youth called it: a compass course.
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#30 Stosh

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 10:12 PM

I wouldn't call it a course per se, more of a compass scavenger hunt. Targets of varying values, team continuity, time limit...more than a compass course. If it was just a compass course, I don't think there would be the international interest there seems to be generated. My Australian nephew has his whole family involved and they are out 2 to 3 times a month in their summer season. Their kids were well versed in map and compass before they started school.
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#31 qwazse

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 08:56 AM

I wouldn't call it a course per se, more of a compass scavenger hunt. Targets of varying values, team continuity, time limit...more than a compass course. If it was just a compass course, I don't think there would be the international interest there seems to be generated. My Australian nephew has his whole family involved and they are out 2 to 3 times a month in their summer season. Their kids were well versed in map and compass before they started school.

The Aussies definitely do it right! But that opinion was not new ...

 

My SM would not give us anything less than what today would be called a "mini-rogain". Anything more straightforward was just "calibration" to him.

 

That attitude seems to have sunk in more than once. My SPL's son was on camp staff a couple years ago, and one evening I had a moment to chat with the young man about his scouting career. He said Dad was SM for a while, and it generally worked out pretty well ... "but, we sure did a lot of orienteering."

 

When I first started with the local orienteering club just a few years ago, the whole notion of advancing to controls in numerical order was new to me. That's where I met Europeans who grew up doing this stuff, and they basically had the equivalent of our cross-country teams which revolved around orienteering.


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#32 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 10:23 AM

The way the course was set up was the following. Courses 1 and 3 had the same controls, just coming from different directions. Courses 2 and 4 were the same way, but Hurricane Matthew destroyed a key component of the course, plus several control points. Course 2 was done on the fly the day of the event, but to my knowledge was not used

 

Control Points, in addition to being in a certain order, also had false control points. The idea was to make sure the Scouts could accurately do a compass course without running down a trail to the first control point they saw. The though was if they went to the wrong control point and got lost, they could backtrack to the last accurate gate, and reshoot the bearing. Sadly folks quit. 


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#33 pchadbo

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 10:22 AM

Got flack from my oldest venturer coming on the next outing:  "Why can't we go on the shorter hike with the rest of the troop? And, why do you add an orienteering course to it?"

 

 

 

Not to be the Nudge here, but why are you, the adult, doing anything other than being a safety officer in a Crew?  This is THIER program not yours.  You should not be planning or "adding" anything to their program.  That is the job of the Crew President and officers.

;-)


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#34 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 08:13 PM

I was able to chat with the PL of the patrol that won the orienteering course. He said it was pretty good, just a little too long for the time allowed. And from a Webelos who did it, "It was pretty easy. The fake control points were tricky though." And yes, he was one of my Cubs a few years back and I taught him how to use a compass. ;)


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#35 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 07:01 AM

As y'alll know, I'm camporee chief again next year. I got a whole year to plan this time. Since it will be Halloween Weekend once again, and since everyone likes Wilderness Survival we are going with a preparedness/survival theme. I personally like Zombie Apocalypse.

 

Anyway adults from the other district and I have come up with some ideas.  I told the PLC Saturday I wanted their ideas, turn them in to their SMs for Roundtable, and I want them. I don't think all of them quite believed me about getting their input. Between election results from last nite's troop meeting, I talked to my guys. here are some ideas.

 

Costume contest and post campfire trick or treating.

 

No Tents, improvised shelters only

 

Everyone carries a survival kit and can only use what is in it for events

 

No stoves for cooking, wood and charcoal only.

 

Instead of a Dutch Oven Cook Off, it will be an Utensiless Cooking Cook Off

 

More time for events and free flowing instead of rigid timeline.

 

Static displays for learning

 

Simpler Orienteering course with survival supplies cached about

 

harder first aid scenarios

 

 

More later


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#36 RememberSchiff

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 08:01 AM

Did scheduling on Halloween weekend reduce headcount say due to Halloween parties?


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#37 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 09:15 AM

No it did not. In fact it actually upped attendance.  Long story short, the camporee for one of the two districts (mine) involved is traditionally the last full weekend in October. It was moved up this year because the other district revolves their activities around the local university's home football games. Hurricane Matthew caused us to move back to the traditional weekend. It was that or cancel, which the other district wanted to do. All the troops in my district said let's do it no matter what. Long story short we did have 3 troops back out due to the date change (the other district), but 3 troops were able to make it with the date change ( 1 from the other district, 2 from mine). And two of the three troops were quite large.

 

When it was on Halloween weekend last year, attendance was pretty good too. Everyone had a blast.

 

In 2014, the Cub family camp out was Halloween through Sunday Nov. 2nd.  While Friday had a low attendance, we had  trick or treat Saturday nite on the 1st.  IT WAS A SMASH HIT!!!!! (caps for emphasis). A lot of the Cubs enjoyed having 2 nites of trick or treating. And lots of parents had to deal with sugar enhanced children. :blink:


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#38 qwazse

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 02:01 PM

Not to be the Nudge here, but why are you, the adult, doing anything other than being a safety officer in a Crew?  This is THIER program not yours.  You should not be planning or "adding" anything to their program.  That is the job of the Crew President and officers.

;-)

This was for their safety. A three mile course built by the park service before starting the seven mile backpack gave the advisor and his dog a much needed nap. ;)

 

More seriously, they must overcome land navigation deficits before I risk their hides back-country.  I've made it quite clear that the principle is long leash. To shoot for mountains, master foothills.

 

I provided options. The alternative was to find a series of caches in the general direction of camp, and after the last one have a "modest bushwhack" over a ridge into the destination valley.

 

Or they could have arranged any alternate route of their choosing. Anything except dawdling along half the distance with boy scouts.

 

Finally, the hike (in its generalities) was chosen by the Crew President.


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