Jump to content



Photo
- - - - -

Massive Cuts Coming To Scouting?

massive budget cuts

  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#1 Midwest Scouter

Midwest Scouter

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 6 posts

Posted 05 October 2016 - 08:20 AM

Recently, we were informed of massive cut's coming to scouting because United Way has decided to no longer donate funds to the scout program. 

 

So far in our area:

Districts are being merged to save costs.

District Executive Cuts or with those remaining, are now explected to do double duty jobs.

I've even heard of a few Councils now having to merge in some states.

On another note - No more salary positions for DE's, just hourly because of new labor laws in 2017.

 

We were also told as volunteers, that we will now have to do much more with less because of this...

Great just great...The same ten people that presently do all the work are going to be expected to do more? Sorry, but it ain't happening folks...

 

So, just one question - Will the executive staff at the BSA be taking major cut's to ease the loss of revenue from United Way or is the BSA going to turn into another type of top heavy Girl Scouts organization?

 

Anyone else heard about this yet???


  • 0

#2 Sentinel947

Sentinel947

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 1512 posts

Posted 05 October 2016 - 08:31 AM

I expected this to come at some point, but I haven't heard of it actually happening.
  • 0

#3 meyerc13

meyerc13

    Roundtable Commissioner

  • Members
  • 271 posts

Posted 05 October 2016 - 08:34 AM

It could be specific to your area.  Our local United Way hasn't given funds to our Council for 15 years now.  It started because of the BSA's discrimination against homosexuals.  I wasn't active in Scouting during that time period, but from what I've heard it took a lot of work for the Council to line up alternative funding sources.  Some well off individuals who supported Scouting certainly helped, but even at a grassroots level many of us who believe in Scouting diverted our charitable giving from the United Way to the BSA.

 

Interestingly, now that the BSA has changed its policies, the United Way still isn't overly interested in supporting the Council.  Before this happened, the Council received approximately $200,000 from the local United Way.  When our Council approached them recently about the membership changes, from what I've heard we were told that the most we could expect would be somewhere around $10,000.  That's 5% of what we had been receiving 15 years ago, and our Council decided it wasn't worth the effort to let people think the United Way supports the Council when in reality they wouldn't be supporting the Council in any significant way.

 

So a Council can survive cuts from the United Way, but it takes work.  If I were you I'd be asking around locally why the local United Way is making this decision.  There must be some reason.  Here's the info from our Council from 15 years ago: 

http://journaltimes....aabbb8e7ca.html


  • 1

Yours in Scouting,

 

Chris Meyer

 

Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner 2015-Present

Lion Guide 2016-Present

Cubmaster 2013-2016

Father of a Boy Scout 2016-Present

 


#4 scoutldr

scoutldr

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4431 posts

Posted 05 October 2016 - 09:54 AM

BSA National is funded by corporate donations, product sales (publications, uniforms, etc) and registration fees from individual members.  Councils are independent non-profit corporations and are responsible for their own funding, i.e., if United Way contributions dry up, it has no effect on National.  Local SE/DE salaries are funded from Council FOS campaigns and popcorn sales and whatever local corporate donors the SE can schmooze.  I had assumed the United Way thing had become moot with the BSA change in policy.


  • 0

#5 T2Eagle

T2Eagle

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 669 posts

Posted 05 October 2016 - 11:12 AM

United Way cut back funding for our council several years ago, not because of membership policies but because of a philosophy change to target and support "advancing the common good by mobilizing our community around education, income, and health with the ultimate goal of graduating kids. Together we are ensuring kids enter and graduate from school prepared for work and life, families are increasing financial stability and independence, and people are increasing access to health care, nutrition, and healthy environments. United Way believes the success and sustainability of our community are dependent on these areas."

 

This was not great news for the Council, but I think it actually was the right decision for the community.  Today the Council receives United Way funds primarily to support Scoutreach and they have strong accountability standards that really make the program demonstrate is efficacy in exchange for funding.


  • 1

#6 David CO

David CO

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 813 posts

Posted 05 October 2016 - 11:20 AM

BSA National is funded by corporate donations, product sales (publications, uniforms, etc) and registration fees from individual members.  Councils are independent non-profit corporations and are responsible for their own funding, i.e., if United Way contributions dry up, it has no effect on National.  Local SE/DE salaries are funded from Council FOS campaigns and popcorn sales and whatever local corporate donors the SE can schmooze.  I had assumed the United Way thing had become moot with the BSA change in policy.

 

Those of us who were around during the Owasippe struggle might laugh at the suggestion that councils are independent.


  • 0

#7 cchoat

cchoat

    District Commissioner

  • Members
  • 85 posts

Posted 05 October 2016 - 11:54 AM

I think the real problem is going to be the new laws coming out of the Department of Labor effecting overtime pay for those making less than $913 per week or $47,476 annually.  That could most easily be our District Executives and below professional staffers.   And what about hiring staffers for summer camps?  They easily put in more than eight hours a day.


Edited by cchoat, 05 October 2016 - 11:54 AM.

  • 0

"Let not the uniform police get you down."


#8 NJCubScouter

NJCubScouter

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 5753 posts

Posted 05 October 2016 - 12:25 PM

Our local United Way stopped funding our council shortly after the U.S. Supreme Court decision on membership policy, so probably 2001-2002.  Right around that same time the council merged with another council, but I believe that was in the works (and maybe even completed) before the UW decision, so I do not think there was a direct cause-and-effect.  Since that time there have been several district mergers, and I suspect the loss of UW funding and other corporate-type funding did play a role in that.  A few years ago a neighboring council shut its doors, and although I am not familiar with that ex-council's finances, and I don't know whether the UW in that area cut off funding (if I had to guess it would be yes, but I don't know), it is logical to suspect that a loss of corporate-type funding in general, as well as declining membership, had a lot to do with it.

 

I do not know whether our local UW ever restored funding after the policy was changed.


  • 0

#9 Sentinel947

Sentinel947

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 1512 posts

Posted 05 October 2016 - 12:33 PM

I think the real problem is going to be the new laws coming out of the Department of Labor effecting overtime pay for those making less than $913 per week or $47,476 annually.  That could most easily be our District Executives and below professional staffers.   And what about hiring staffers for summer camps?  They easily put in more than eight hours a day.


Summer camp staff workers were never classified as exempt employees. This change won't effect them.
  • 0

#10 NJCubScouter

NJCubScouter

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 5753 posts

Posted 05 October 2016 - 12:34 PM

Those of us who were around during the Owasippe struggle might laugh at the suggestion that councils are independent.

 

Well, they are more independent in one direction than the other.  They are "independent" in the sense of being "on their own" financially, which is what scoutldr was talking about.  (In other words, National does not give councils any money.)  The councils are not so independent when National wants to exert control, which they can do by threatening to suspend/revoke a council's charter and possibly other ways that I am not aware of. 

 

It is not that dissimilar to any franchising situation.  The McDonald's down the street is probably owned by a corporation or other entity that is independent from the national McDonald's, but if they stop paying their franchising fee or otherwise violate their franchise agreement, they will lose the right to use the name or logo of McDonald's.  That does not end their independence as a corporation, but now it is a corporation that owns an empty restraurant.


Edited by NJCubScouter, 05 October 2016 - 12:41 PM.

  • 0

#11 fred johnson

fred johnson

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 1427 posts

Posted 05 October 2016 - 12:55 PM

District and council mergers are more than inevitable.  It's a good idea.  Major changes have happened in the last 20 years.  Most of the key things councils and districts did before are much much much easier to do today.  

  • Roundtable mtgs are mostly now optional as technology solves most training, communication, calendaring and other details.
  • Most paperwork is now online and automatic.  Online advancement, rechartering, membership reports, event sign-up, merit badge counselor renewal.  

I think it's a good idea because there is a critical mass of staff, events and resources to make a great council.  I am so extremely impressed with my local council, but they need a full staff.  1 exec.  5 or more directors.  Many lower staffers.  I'd bet we have 1 to 1000 youth full-time staffer ratio.  A good set of camps.  I doubt we'd be as good a council if we were only 5000 youth. 

 

If councils don't want to merge, maybe they should merge resources or departments ?

  • IT departments ?
  • Registrars?
  • Advertising, communications, advancement, etc ?

IMHO, BSA has too many councils.  I'm not sure which should not be there or how to re-do it.  But there are 272 councils.  https://en.wikipedia...outs_of_America

 

Perhaps a general rule should be established.  

  • Councils should have more than 20,000 youth members ?  
  • Districts should have ??? units and/or ??? youth members ?

Edited by fred johnson, 05 October 2016 - 01:08 PM.

  • 0

#12 RememberSchiff

RememberSchiff

    Your Friendly Neighborhood ModeratorMan

  • Moderators
  • 2423 posts

Posted 05 October 2016 - 01:10 PM

 

District and council mergers are more than inevitable.  It's a good idea.  Major changes have happened in the last 20 years.  Most of the key things councils and districts did before are much much much easier to do today.  

  • Roundtable mtgs are mostly now optional as technology solves most training, communication, calendaring and other details.
  • Most paperwork is now online and automatic.  Online advancement, rechartering, membership reports, event reports, merit badge counselor renewal.  

If councils don't want to merge, maybe they should merge resources or departments ?

  • IT departments ?
  • Registrars?
  • Advertising, communications, advancement, etc ?

I am so extremely impressed with my local council, but they need a full staff.  1 exec.  5 or more directors.  Many lower staffers.  I'd bet we have 1 to 1000 youth full-time staffer ratio.  

 

IMHO, BSA has too many councils.  I'm not sure which should not be there or how to re-do it.  But there are 272 councils.  https://en.wikipedia...outs_of_America

 

Perhaps a general rule should be established.  

  • Councils should have more than 20,000 youth members ?  
  • Districts should have ??? units and/or ??? youth members ?

 

 

An inconvenient truth, merging councils does not grow total membership.Three years later, the membership sum of that geographic area will be less than the membership of its original parts.


  • 3

#13 Eagledad

Eagledad

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 5766 posts

Posted 05 October 2016 - 02:28 PM

Hard times are ahead, the economy hasn't improved in the last nine years. Typically the first place that suffers when budgets tighten are donations to non-prophets.

 

Barry


  • 0

"Experience is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first, then the lesson."


#14 DadScouts

DadScouts

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 57 posts

Posted 05 October 2016 - 02:35 PM

UW dropped our council I think a decade ago.  Apparently not the BSA membership policy but the fact UW's funding was down and they knew our council wasn't hurting for $s as much as other non-profits in our area.  It also wasn't big $s to begin with so the cut wasn't severe.  Council $s are actually up here; partially since some corp matching $s have been reestablished with the change in the membership policy.


  • 0

#15 desertrat77

desertrat77

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2154 posts

Posted 05 October 2016 - 04:41 PM

I'm all for a leaner council.

 

I still see the value of the council, but I do not approve of their expensive tastes (not all councils, but definitely some).  Salaries.  Bloated/inefficient staffs.  Edifices built for themselves, and then they ask the volunteers to pay the bill.   Without previous consulting the volunteers regarding their opinion on the matter.

 

Some council staffs are already cut to the bone and working day/night.   Bless them.   The others:   they know who they are :)

 

Exception:   I'm all for raising DE salaries, or at least paying them a decently hour wage that reflects how many hours they really are working.   True, not all DEs are stars, but the ones that are deserve every penny they earn.   I'm shocked at how poorly some DEs are treated by council staff.

 

Thankfully, real scouting happens at the local, volunteer level.   We'll be okay.


  • 1

#16 RememberSchiff

RememberSchiff

    Your Friendly Neighborhood ModeratorMan

  • Moderators
  • 2423 posts

Posted 05 October 2016 - 04:58 PM

Hard times are ahead, the economy hasn't improved in the last nine years. Typically the first place that suffers when budgets tighten are donations to non-prophets.

 

Barry

Freudian slip?


  • 2

#17 thrifty

thrifty

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 06 October 2016 - 09:10 AM

We had a meeting last week about several councils in our state merging.  One of the explanations for this was because UW had decreased funds to scouting significantly.  Because of this and other problems, some councils are unable to support themselves.  UW wasn't blamed for the merging.  I got the impression that the UW changes had been recent but after reading everyone else's posts, they may have been in the past and were only mentioned as an example. 


  • 0

#18 fred johnson

fred johnson

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 1427 posts

Posted 06 October 2016 - 10:26 AM

An inconvenient truth, merging councils does not grow total membership.Three years later, the membership sum of that geographic area will be less than the membership of its original parts.

 

Merging councils is not the cause of membership drops.  It's a way to reduce infrastructure cost to survive membership drops.  

 

Plus, things have changed.  Technology has improved making it easier to serve a larger group.  As such, not merging wastes money on infrastructure that could be better spent directly impacting the scout.


Edited by fred johnson, 06 October 2016 - 10:29 AM.

  • 0

#19 Eagledad

Eagledad

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 5766 posts

Posted 06 October 2016 - 10:29 AM

Freudian slip?

LOL, I GUESS SO


  • 0

"Experience is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first, then the lesson."


#20 SSScout

SSScout

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3937 posts

Posted 08 October 2016 - 08:33 AM

As always, "follow the money".   

When the  leadership forgets  the purpose of Scouting (Game with a Purpose), and goes for Numbers and Profit (pay level), Camps will be sold, Councils will merge, Districts will lose their focus. 

So many CEOs, whether in corporate world or non-profit, go for the cachet of the income level, for the comparison of "you " versus "me" in the CEO list.  Corporations suffer and die, but the CEOs move to Aspen.   

 It is the definition of the Council's organization that needs to be remembered and enforced (is that the right word?)   Each Council is a franchised, separate corporation.  It's Board of Directors, with defined fiduciary responsibility are the Charter Org Reps.   Our friend above mentions Owasippee.  That case had to go to the Federal Court and newspapers to be settled.  Irving was not pleased.  The "good ol' Boys" network of Chicago Council was not pleased, but the  camp was saved, for the present.  Same for a Camp in Massachusetts, yes?  Talk to your CORs. 

 

Tomorrow,  Sunday, I will be Range Safety Officer for Archery at a "Rocket into Scouting" event (Saturday canceled for rain).  Cub Scouts will have fun, Rockets will be launched.  Some new recruits to the "Game With A Purpose"  will begin their journey.  Bows ready, take your stance, aim , fire....


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


IPB Skin By Virteq