Jump to content



Photo
- - - - -

New Way Funding


  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 Fehler

Fehler

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 443 posts

Posted 12 August 2016 - 03:10 PM

The Metro Lakes District of the Northern Star Council is piloting a new program this year (after piloting Lion Cubs, and Accelerated Webelos Transition, I'm getting sick of this airplane).

 

Rather then the $24 registration fee (and $12 Boys Life), all scouts will be charged $144 annually by the Council.  This fee will cover registration ($24), Boys Life ($12), Handbooks ($10-$13 per year Cub Scouts), and Rank Badges/Merit Badges/Adventure Loops and Pins ($15-$20, depending on activity level).  As you can do math, this does not add up to $144.

 

The council (starting with this district) will no longer conduct Family Friends of Scouting at the unit level (prior high-level donors will be contacted through Community Friends of Scouting).  Popcorn Sales and other fundraisers will still occur.

 

The forms families will fill out for each scout will give several options, from paying upfront, paying in installments (Credit Card information required for installments!), or requesting financial assistance.  The form as introduced last night did not make it clear how families can request financial assistance, or make an allowance for partial payments (the forms were pulled back last night and will be reworked/reprinted). 

 

I've got more to say, but will have to say it later.


  • 0

#2 T2Eagle

T2Eagle

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 704 posts

Posted 12 August 2016 - 03:33 PM

It will be interesting to see how that plays out.  On the positive side, Councils seem to be chronically short of funds and so both nickel and dime many activities and also then go hat in hand with FOS requests.  Scouting certainly costs more than the $24 registration fee and a more dependable and consistent revenue stream could shore up some otherwise struggling councils.

 

On the downside that's a bigger check up front which is going to have some impact, especially at the cub level.  I think a two tiered Cub/Boy Scout system might have been a better first move.

 

My other concern is the headache at the unit level, chasing folks for payment and payment plans is a hassle and having to worry whether or not a family is or is not registered on an ongoing basis will just be a mess, again especially at the cub level.  Thanks for piloting this stuff for us, I hope someone remebers that some designs are just flawed and should be allowed to crash rather than strung together with just enogh duct tape and baling wire to lurch on over to the next stop.


  • 0

#3 Lurking...

Lurking...

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 12252 posts

Posted 12 August 2016 - 03:43 PM

Maybe the well-to-do in the Twin Cities can afford this but it will be the death knell for many units. Basically it is a scam to make the units do the FOS fund raising for the council.
  • 0

#4 desertrat77

desertrat77

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2252 posts

Posted 12 August 2016 - 04:18 PM

Maybe the well-to-do in the Twin Cities can afford this but it will be the death knell for many units. Basically it is a scam to make the units do the FOS fund raising for the council.

 

I concur.

 

And the council appears to be skimming a little extra cash for their "strategic planning" retreat and new conference room chairs.


  • 0

#5 NJCubScouter

NJCubScouter

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 6154 posts

Posted 12 August 2016 - 04:35 PM

Usually posts like this appear on April 1.

I would have put a smiley face at the end of that sentence but unfortunately I realize that this is real. I think that if they did that in our district, most of the district would vanish in a puff of smoke.
  • 0

#6 David CO

David CO

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 896 posts

Posted 12 August 2016 - 05:16 PM

Where does the Chartered Organization fit into this?


  • 0

#7 Lurking...

Lurking...

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 12252 posts

Posted 12 August 2016 - 07:12 PM

It doesn't, it still pays the $20  and provides a place to meet.  The whole financial onus falls on the unit, the unit's programming and the boys.  I can't believe they would do such a thing.... Yeah right, it's only a matter of time.


  • 0

#8 bsaggcmom

bsaggcmom

    Member

  • Members
  • 38 posts

Posted 12 August 2016 - 08:30 PM

Nice $75 per registered member donation to the council. I can see why they are dropping the Family FOS in that district. A great way to drop the volunteer base and multi scout families numbers. All I can say is glad my son only has 1.5 years left, it shouldn't make it out of pilot phase in that time frame.


  • 0

#9 Sentinel947

Sentinel947

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 1615 posts

Posted 12 August 2016 - 09:55 PM

If they charge this to adult volunteers as well, they can kiss their membership goodbye. What a ridiculous idea.
  • 2

#10 Lurking...

Lurking...

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 12252 posts

Posted 12 August 2016 - 10:06 PM

It costs me absolutely nothing to work with the youth in the church, I can't even take mileage because they cover that too.  No uniforms to buy, not patches, no registration, no paying for kids who can't afford it.  Nada.

 

Now Scouting on the other hand..... well that's a different story.  I have t pay for training, for travel, for uniforms, etc.

 

So now the expensive program wants to make a HUGE increase in cost .... wadaya think?


  • 0

#11 Chadamus

Chadamus

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 206 posts

Posted 12 August 2016 - 10:28 PM

Stosh you got me thinking this:

What's the cost to make Eagle? On average per Scout. A rhetorical question, but one I'm pondering now. And how much are we paying for name recognition? Eagle supposedly looks good on an application after all...
  • 0

#12 CalicoPenn

CalicoPenn

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3150 posts

Posted 13 August 2016 - 06:27 AM

This is something that the unit folks in the district can kill - fast - if they have the will to do it - but it will take most of the units agreeing to stick to their guns to be effective - simply refuse.  When they hand you the re-worked forms, you hand them right back and tell them calmly and plainly that you will not be presenting this to your unit and that all adult leadership of the unit will resign immediately leaving no unit at all, if they don't go back immediately to the national registration scheme - multiply that by all the units in the district and "poof" - this idea will die.


  • 0

#13 Lurking...

Lurking...

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 12252 posts

Posted 13 August 2016 - 06:43 AM

Stosh you got me thinking this:

What's the cost to make Eagle? On average per Scout. A rhetorical question, but one I'm pondering now. And how much are we paying for name recognition? Eagle supposedly looks good on an application after all...

 

My Venturing Crew was a specialty unit that required $1500 to start, but then was only gas and food after that.  National Events cost gas and food.  Local events cost gas and food, but often meals were provided.

 

I wonder now, too, how much more an Eagle Scout coughs up to get the medal?

 

Uniform and patches X 2 =  X 3 if Jambo = $250-$300

Annual registration $25 X 7 = $175

Summer camp $250 X 7 = $1750

Campouts $15 X 12 X  7 = $1260

Jambo $ X travel expense = $1000-$2000

Dues 12 X 7 = varies

 

All in al, those estimates of the biggies starts the price tag at about $5,000ish.  Granted a lot of this can be deferred through fund raising, but we're talking a bit of money here.


  • 0

#14 cyclops

cyclops

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 229 posts

Posted 13 August 2016 - 06:58 AM

If they charge this to adult volunteers as well, they can kiss their membership goodbye. What a ridiculous idea.

Yep, deathwish.


  • 0

#15 Lurking...

Lurking...

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 12252 posts

Posted 13 August 2016 - 07:12 AM

If they charge this to adult volunteers as well, they can kiss their membership goodbye. What a ridiculous idea.

 

I'm thinking that Northern Star Council's pilot program is basically dead in the water before it starts.  Like NJCubScouter says, "sounds like a joke."

 

Some Northern Star Council web sites say $24 registration until 12/31/17 and others say $32 + $16 (Boys Life).  Nothing posted as yet of any changes.


  • 1

#16 qwazse

qwazse

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 6704 posts

Posted 13 August 2016 - 07:16 AM

Stosh you got me thinking this:
What's the cost to make Eagle? On average per Scout. A rhetorical question, but one I'm pondering now. And how much are we paying for name recognition? Eagle supposedly looks good on an application after all...

I didn't go to summer camp or Jambo for rank advancement purposes. Parents never asked if I earned any badge (although I did a couple every year). Dad might have asked if I'm shooting straight yet? There was a rifle waiting for me one birthday (which coincided with camp). Went to one MB pow-wow at $30 for the weekend.

Weekend camps? The boys are gonna eat anyway. And trust me, if the girlfriend knows his schedule is open, his wallet will drain three times as fast! BSA forces us to add overhead by requiring adults on patrol overnights.

Earning MBs costs phone calls and time. Oh, and pamphlets .... with a troop library most will circulate through about 8 boys.

Service projects ... labor is the largest cost. To get it free, you're buying some quality lunches! But at that age, son #2 was treating his friends to breakfast at the house on weekends and baking cakes for birthdays during the week.
  • 0

#17 Sentinel947

Sentinel947

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 1615 posts

Posted 13 August 2016 - 12:54 PM

I'm thinking that Northern Star Council's pilot program is basically dead in the water before it starts. Like NJCubScouter says, "sounds like a joke."

Some Northern Star Council web sites say $24 registration until 12/31/17 and others say $32 + $16 (Boys Life). Nothing posted as yet of any changes.

Since I don't have kids in the program, a $150 fee to council to volunteer (not including event costs) is not something I'm going to cough up.

Edited by Sentinel947, 13 August 2016 - 12:54 PM.

  • 0

#18 meyerc13

meyerc13

    Roundtable Commissioner

  • Members
  • 271 posts

Posted 15 August 2016 - 09:13 AM

Wow... my Pack serves three of the poorest schools in our City.  We have a hard time collecting the $24 from each family.  The thing about this program is that it still doesn't cover the unit's operating costs.  Want to go to a baseball game?  That's another $10/person.  Family campout?  $20/person.  Den supplies?  $12/person.  Special Pack Meeting speaker this month?  $5/person.  Summer Camp?  That's over $150/person.  The unit will still be coming with hat out, and/or still be asking parents to fund-raise.

 

Listen, my son is in Karate and we pay over $100/month for that, but there the pricing is all inclusive (except for the cost of new belts which thankfully doesn't happen as often now that he is a Black Belt).  Different Packs offer different programs though, and have different budgets.  Our Pack hits fundraising hard and through it we cover much of our costs (but not yet camp and extra-curricular outings like baseball games and monster truck shows).  But based on our FoS donations in the Pack, I can tell you that out of 30+ families in our Pack, less than 20% would have signed up with an up-front fee structure like this.  It's great they offer financial aid, but if it is anything like camperships in our District, they'll only pay a portion and expect the parents to cover the rest.  For many parents, that isn't possible.  Our Pack offers a lot of unofficial subsidization to boys who can't afford Scouting, but we do it at a unit level and are far more generous than our District/Council from what I've seen.


  • 0

Yours in Scouting,

 

Chris Meyer

 

Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner 2015-Present

Lion Guide 2016-Present

Cubmaster 2013-2016

Father of a Boy Scout 2016-Present

 


#19 SSScout

SSScout

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4033 posts

Posted 15 August 2016 - 04:06 PM

Brings up something mentioned at the last RT.  Popcorn sales.

Unit sells popcorn ("Hey, it's not over priced, this is a DONATION to Scouting, with a THANK YOU gift in return.").   About 1/3 goes to pay for the Popcorn (Trails End), 1/3 to the unit (divvy up as a Scout Account? and Unit?  Pay for Philmont?) and 1/3 to the Council.

 

Okay, if the Unit sells "holiday trees"  or sells spaghetti suppers,  they decide who keeps what (wholesale the trees to Oregon or NC,  grocery supplier gives discount). 

Any units on the receiving end of this website VOLUNTARILY donate a third to their Council?

 

In the mean time, it almost makes sense, what the original poster said. Almost.   Most Units that I know already collect some dues and then include the Handbook(s), neckers, hats, insignia, "bling", camp prepayments (credit!),  and  ceremonial regalia (candles, flags, banners, sign outside the  CO). 

 

We all pay taxes. These taxes are used (one hopes) to pay for lots of things us citizens need and like. Roads, schools, dams, parks, zoos,  military protection....

 

I may never get to see Zion Park in person, but I like to think my taxes have preserved it. Are our membership fees and FOS and popcorn going to preserve Camp Wizbang so it won't get sold to a developer because the SE needs a pay bump and no one thought to "promote Scouting"  other wise?   Are only us locals  showing Scouting to be the program for certain nephews ( hello UncleP  ) by which to grow into men ? 

 

It is nice to get a paycheck for what one does.

 

we have a local community museum.  It was started by an auctioneer who realized he was selling off the history of the area everytime he cleared out an old farm or settled the estate of a family who no longer lived within 5 miles of the grandparents home.  It started with a collection in the National Bank's basement.    This museum grew and became popular. School groups came. Exhibits of the "old ways" were created and one wall was dedicated to a local baseball legend. They named the road in front of the museum after his family, which donated the land for the construction of the new building.   Volunteers  worked tirelessly. 

Now, it has five paid staff,  the original founders are almost all gone.   One half of the "town" gallery has been cleared for a sculpture gallery, wine and beer gardens are more frequent than special exhibits on "old time things".  The dedicated wall to the ball player is taken down, in favor of a big poster extolling the next pottery demonstration. 

Is BSA Scouting taking this same course?  Is the Program taking backseat to the necessity of paying wages?   Hey, is this de ja vu all over again?    

 

Increase the National membership fee, maybe.  Include all that other stuff, no, that's the Council trying to take a piece of the Units pie.....


  • 0

#20 jc2008

jc2008

    Member

  • Members
  • 143 posts

Posted 18 September 2016 - 01:44 PM

So basically after the perks you are giving around $70 to council for a year of scouting and no fos requests. With installments that doesn't seem terrible for a year long program.

Popcorn is more for the units rather than council. After all out of their "third" comes the freight cost and incentives they offer, not to mention employee hours administrating the sale. And if a council sells a ton of popcorn then it's the units that are majorly benefitting anyways.

That same fee for leaders would be ridiculous. Already have problems getting people to pay or having to use the units money to pay for volunteers, so much so that lots of adults are unregistered.
  • 0




2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users


IPB Skin By Virteq