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Guide to Safe Scouting

health and safety safety gtss

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#1 RichardB

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 12:33 PM

An awesome update has been published for your reading pleasure.  

 

http://www.scouting....ty/GSS/toc.aspx

 

Enjoy,

 

RichardB


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#2 meyerc13

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 01:20 PM

Thanks for pointing this out.  I really like the Incident Review sheets.  I was at a Webelos camp last year during a thunderstorm and the camp staff told us to shelter in our tents.  Having something like this to show them actual incident data proving this is a bad idea would have helped.  As a Pack Trainer and Roundtable Commissioner I intend to use these to train the leaders I serve.


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Yours in Scouting,

 

Chris Meyer

 

Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner 2015-Present

Lion Guide 2016-Present

Cubmaster 2013-2016

Father of a Boy Scout 2016-Present

 


#3 MrBob

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 02:47 PM

Cannons and Large-Bore Artillery

Units are not authorized, under any circumstances, to use a cannon or any other large-bore artillery device.

 

 

That tears it... I QUIT!!!    :laugh:


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#4 Stosh

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 02:56 PM

Cannons and Large-Bore Artillery

Units are not authorized, under any circumstances, to use a cannon or any other large-bore artillery device.

 

 

That tears it... I QUIT!!!    :laugh:

 

 

And the kicker on that is in the reenacting world, the guys with the cannon and any other large-bore artillery device have to be certified.  All the other yahoos with black powder rifle muskets standing shoulder to shoulder aiming at other people  and hand guns and sabers while riding horses at a full gallop don't. It is obvious they have never played the game.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#5 desertrat77

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 05:04 PM

This paragraph warms my cold, cold heart...proof that the Nervous Nellies who blanch at the sight of a sheath knife haven't completely taken over the BSA:

 

(italics from the original)

_______ Knives

A sharp pocketknife with a can opener on it is an invaluable backcountry tool. Keep it clean, sharp, and handy. The BSA believes choosing the right equipment for the job at hand is the best answer to the question of what specific knife should be used. We are aware that many councils or camps may have limits on the type or style of knife that should be used. The BSA neither encourages nor bans fixed-blade knives nor do we set a limit on blade length. Since its inception, Boy Scouting has relied heavily on an outdoor program to achieve its objectives. This program meets more of the purposes of Scouting than any other single feature. We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility.

Remember—knives are not allowed on school premises, nor can they be taken aboard commercial aircraft.

References: Boy Scout Handbook, Fieldbook, Bear Handbook, and Wolf Handbook
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#6 Stosh

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 06:58 PM

The camp that I attended last week bans sheath knives.  I use my belt axe/sheath knife combo all the time and when I wore my 1910 Scout uniform I wore the combo with it.  A couple of the staff asked about it and when I showed them it was official BSA equipment, they just said, "Cool!"  It's ironic that the camp bans sheath knives yet sells belt axes in the trading post. Seriously?

 

As long as BSA doesn't put a limit on blade length, I guess I'll have to start wearing my sword again.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#7 desertrat77

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 07:14 PM

I've got a couple old BSA sheath knives.   Younger folks, scout and adult alike, get a kick looking at them and mulling over the concept that once upon a time, carrying a sheath knife was considered a perfectly normal activity in the BSA. 

 

As scout in Alaska, I carried a Buck 102 bird/trout sheath knife for years.   Came in handy many times.

 

Now it's fairly common to read summer camp and camporee guides that state "NO SHEATH KNIVES" in all caps.  


Edited by desertrat77, 09 August 2016 - 07:15 PM.

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#8 Stosh

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 07:21 PM

The real stupid logic behind this whole concept is not the knife or the sheath, but that a scout can carry it around.  I teach my boys about folding blade knives, lock blade knives and fixed blade knives.  It's pretty hard to do kitchen chores without knowing about fixed blade knives and their safety.  But not to worry, they aren't sheath knives, the boys just dump them into the chuck box after washing.

 

So wielding them in the kitchen is okay, but wearing them is bad?

 

It's kinda like the stupid rules we have here in my state.  A person can open carry a weapon, but if they put a coat on, they have to have a special permit and training.  ??? Really  ???


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#9 Hedgehog

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 07:44 PM

We went to Camp Tuscarora in New York.  On check in my son asked about the sheath knives, throwing knives and throwing tomahawks we had packed.  The ranger said, "if they are legal for the BSA, they are legal here." :)

 

I typically carry a Ontario RD-7 and my son carries a Becker BK-9 when we go backpacking.  The cool factor more than compensates for the extra weight.


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#10 Stosh

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 08:11 PM

I carry the hunting knife that my grandfather carried.  I've skinned a lot of game and filleted a ton of fish with it.  Carry it whenever I'm in the woods.  It's my emergency knife for everything from kitchen work to rapid fire building when hypothermia sets in.  I do have a conceal carry so It's legal in my state and BSA camps that ban them are unaware of it.  At least no one has asked me about it in 35 years.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#11 TAHAWK

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 09:39 PM

The camp that I attended last week bans sheath knives.  I use my belt axe/sheath knife combo all the time and when I wore my 1910 Scout uniform I wore the combo with it.  A couple of the staff asked about it and when I showed them it was official BSA equipment, they just said, "Cool!"  It's ironic that the camp bans sheath knives yet sells belt axes in the trading post. Seriously?

 

As long as BSA doesn't put a limit on blade length, I guess I'll have to start wearing my sword again.

 

Two BSA publications on wilderness survival, The Complete Wilderness Training Manual, 2d. ed. rev. (DK Publishing, 2007)  and The Survival Handbook,  Essential Skills for Outdoor Adventuresuggest carrying short swords.

 

Boys' Life in June, 2008, and June, 2016 specifically advocate shortish sheath knives.

 

 It's the bubble problem yet again.  Left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.


Edited by TAHAWK, 09 August 2016 - 09:39 PM.

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#12 Stosh

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 10:32 PM

We can trust the boys with a jack knife.

We can trust the boys with a lock-blade knife

We can trust the boys with a butcher knife.

But we can't trust the boys with a sheath knife.

 

There's a common denominator here and having noticed it, the only extenuating dynamic coming through is the sheath must be the dangerous part.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#13 RichardB

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 07:02 AM

Cannons and Large-Bore Artillery

Units are not authorized, under any circumstances, to use a cannon or any other large-bore artillery device.

 

 

That tears it... I QUIT!!!    :laugh:

 

 

 

Been part of literature for over 10 years.   Just new to you.     Some tragic background, well before my time if you want to understand why.    http://www.cdc.gov/n...or/03or020.html  


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#14 RichardB

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 07:03 AM

Thanks for pointing this out.  I really like the Incident Review sheets.  I was at a Webelos camp last year during a thunderstorm and the camp staff told us to shelter in our tents.  Having something like this to show them actual incident data proving this is a bad idea would have helped.  As a Pack Trainer and Roundtable Commissioner I intend to use these to train the leaders I serve.

 

Would be interested in any feedback as you use them, share them.     


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#15 RichardB

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 07:05 AM

 

As long as BSA doesn't put a limit on blade length, I guess I'll have to start wearing my sword again.

 

Has been discussed, leaning toward either 60" or 72"


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#16 Stosh

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 07:17 AM

Been part of literature for over 10 years.   Just new to you.     Some tragic background, well before my time if you want to understand why.    http://www.cdc.gov/n...or/03or020.html  

 

It is obvious that these boys hadn't been trained, were in over their head, did not load the gun properly and were an accident waiting to happen.  I have had a few dozen cups of coffee around the campfire with the artillery boys to know the danger of what happened and I can almost guarantee I know why the gun exploded.  Someone had plugged the barrel to get more bang for the buck.  Every blackpowder shooter and even modern rifle shooter knows that if something plugs the barrel will cause the breech to explode.  We hear it all the time when a hunter stumbles, plugs the end of the barrel with a bit of dirt and when fires, the gun ruptures. 

 

This is why our artillery in the reenactment world are fully trained and certified before operating the guns.

 

I remember as a kid having flag ceremonies at camp with a guy with a cannon. I remember he pounded pieces of wood in the barrel to make it louder.  When fired, we could hear the pieces tearing through the woods.  Knowing what I now know about this stuff, I can see why BSA banned it.  In the hands of idiots, it's dangerous.  Otherwise if done correctly, it is totally safe and quite impressive.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#17 Beavah

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 09:04 AM

  Knowing what I now know about this stuff, I can see why BSA banned it.  In the hands of idiots, it's dangerous.  Otherwise if done correctly, it is totally safe and quite impressive.

 

Yah, but if we ban everything that isn't safe in da hands of idiots, what's left?

 

Besides, when yeh make things idiot-proof, Nature just develops a better idiot.

 

Beavah


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#18 TAHAWK

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 09:07 AM

So no prohibited activities or items?


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#19 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 10:06 AM

Two BSA publications on wilderness survival, The Complete Wilderness Training Manual, 2d. ed. rev. (DK Publishing, 2007)  and The Survival Handbook,  Essential Skills for Outdoor Adventuresuggest carrying short swords.

 

Boys' Life in June, 2008, and June, 2016 specifically advocate shortish sheath knives.

 

 It's the bubble problem yet again.  Left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

 

I thought

The Complete Wilderness Training Manual, 2d. ed. rev. (DK Publishing, 2007)   suggested a kukri?

 

I typically carry a Ontario RD-7 and my son carries a Becker BK-9 when we go backpacking.  The cool factor more than compensates for the extra weight.

 

I so want a BK-21!


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"Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt


#20 meyerc13

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 10:12 AM

One of my instructors at Philmont is a history teacher who once upon a time was a member of a living history Explorer post, re-enacting Civil War battles.  What she did back then would no longer be allowed today.  I can understand why we wouldn't want the average Scout firing cannons, but a blanket ban prohibits even trained, certified, older Venturers/Explorers from safely doing an activity. 

 

I wonder what some of our ancestors would have said if they see how we overprotect our children today.  Some of those ancestors, at the same age as our Boy Scouts, likely fought in the Civil War - firing cannons while enemy cannons were firing at them.  But we need to "Think of the Children!!"  Part of me worries how long it will be before Rifles, Shotguns, and Archery are banned, quickly to be followed by knives and campfires.  I know a large percentage of parents flip out about us allowing Scouts to do these activities, so how long before that vocal group leads to more restrictions and bans?


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Yours in Scouting,

 

Chris Meyer

 

Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner 2015-Present

Lion Guide 2016-Present

Cubmaster 2013-2016

Father of a Boy Scout 2016-Present

 






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