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Adults At It Again


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#21 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 07:23 AM

Thanks for the solid points. I gotta work on language. And also how things are presented. When I talk to the Scouts, I try to leave things as open ended as possible. But I to automatically give orders at times. That does make a difference.

 

The SM's Minute is off limits UNLESS the SM is not there. Part of that is that he is a wealth of knowledge. Part of it is the SM is declining in his abilities, and the SM's Minute is a big deal for him that we do not want to take away. I'm hoping that the SM realizes that the troop is in good hands for him to step down. We had an AT crew, a summer camp, and two prep backpacking trips either without him involved, or  meeting us and having lunch for us.

 

As for the PLC, unfortunately they do very little. In the past they met 2-3 times a year, yes you heard me a year. I've tried to get not only the SPL, but also the SM and lead ASM, but the Scouts do not seem interested, and the  the adults don't have the time for another meeting.

 

As for the boy-led faction taking stuff on and letting youth run it, that's my game plan. And every single chance I get, I praise the Scouts in front of the adult led faction. Not only does it build up the self-confidence of the Scouts, which I'm afraid to say is lacking in some BUT that's because they have not been given the chance to shine, but I'm trying to remind the adults that the Scouts can do it. But because of the way the adults have divided with responsibilities, it does indeed get interesting.

 

As for the "chain of command" communications,  That is something the ADULTS need to work on, and a few of the Scouts.

 

As for abbreviations, SSD= Safe Swim Defense, and SA= Safety Afloat. I'm still certified in both Aquatic Supervision programs, and am a BSA Lifeguard, so the swimming and boating is my game.


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#22 Stosh

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 07:56 AM

Spin off thread "The Language we use"


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#23 Hedgehog

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 08:47 AM

As for the PLC, unfortunately they do very little. In the past they met 2-3 times a year, yes you heard me a year. I've tried to get not only the SPL, but also the SM and lead ASM, but the Scouts do not seem interested, and the  the adults don't have the time for another meeting.

 

Ours has a retreat at the beginning of the year for training and planning (this year we've up it to a weekend campout) and meets the first week of every month for 45 minutes prior to the Troop meeting.  It really isn't a hassle to arrive for a meeting a little early.  I think this is critical.  The PLC needs to plan the meetings, otherwise.... yep, you know where this is going... the adults will.


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#24 Stosh

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 10:17 AM

Our calendar planning has taken on the campout/retreat in the fall.  Saturday AM, fire up the campfire after breakfast and start putting together the old fun stuff from last year with the new potentially fun stuff to try next year.   Same summer camp next year or some place new?  etc.  Once the calendar is set, then it's time for some fine tuning on the servant leadership training.  What's working, what's not, etc.

 

The adults can speak to answer direct question posed to them,  otherwise they drink coffee and get more firewood.  They serve to support the PL's (or PLC) in their deliberation.

 

After the calendar is complete to the nth detail, then the move is into training of whatever topic the boys want.  That is usually identified prior to the outing.

 

The evening campfire is the fellowship/brotherhood time when everyone participates equally.  Old stories, new ideas, trips they went on as a family that might be good to consider.  How many new Webelos do we expect, etc. kinds of things.


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Stosh

 

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#25 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 11:08 AM

I'm going off topic slightly as it does have some relevance. This week has been a long stressful one for me, not only because of what I found out about Monday's meeting, but also everything else going on in my personal and work life.  With finding out that things went backwards Monday, I completely forgot about a conversation last weekend until I was talking to oldest.

 

Anyway, I found out that the troop that has had problems over the past few years will be getting a new adult as an ASM, and may possibly take over as SM.  The CM of my pack, who is good friends with the SM, and has actually influenced him to do some stuff I suggested the CM suggest to the SM, will be going there. So out of my old den, I see 2 definates, and 1 possible coming to the troop I'm in. Hopefully the rest will remain with the troop. Fresh leadership is a good thing, and the CM taking over as SM may be a very good thing. He gets Scout-led. I found this out talking to Gunship because he has talked to all the CM and SM about "helping" them out. I know back in May, Gunship made a comment about after July he's leaving, so maybe he's going to join them. Considering the schedule he and his sons have, their meeting night is a better fit. Plus I found out our SM may be stepping down. And the reason Gunship and his sons joined us was because of his old SM.

 

So the biggest proponent of adult led may be moving. Also if the other troop can keep the Webelos they get A) we won't have a massive group of 23 new Scouts and B) that troop can stay alive and grow. Some folks do like adult led.

 

As for the conversation with oldest, it was interesting. He's come to realize that as much as he likes working with the new Scouts, if he wants change, he needs to be SPL again. He'll be running next election.


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#26 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 08:30 PM

"Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!"

 

I had a nice chat with the 2 Scouts in charge of the meeting Monday. They had a good plan, they agreed with one suggest as it "makes sense," and then really liked a second suggestion, and took off with it. So far so good.


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#27 Hedgehog

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 05:18 AM

"Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!"

 

I had a nice chat with the 2 Scouts in charge of the meeting Monday. They had a good plan, they agreed with one suggest as it "makes sense," and then really liked a second suggestion, and took off with it. So far so good.

 

 

Now you just have to come up with an urgent project that the adult-led faction needs to handle durng the meeting to keep them occupied - like getting all of the black off the Dutch Ovens.


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#28 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 09:22 AM

Now you just have to come up with an urgent project that the adult-led faction needs to handle durng the meeting to keep them occupied - like getting all of the black off the Dutch Ovens.

 

ACTUALLY, I was reminded that several of the adult faction had not taken swim tests this year. So they are non0-swimmers and can't do boating unless they ride with an adult. :)

 

Unfortunately more of the Youth led faction are in the same boat, and 1 is Aquatics Supervision certified. :(


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#29 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 09:24 AM

Funny thing about the second suggestion, they were joking around coming up with what they thought were crazy ideas, then when it went to put down what they were doing, completely ignored their crazy ideas. I had to say they forgot them and they needed to be added to the list to chose some. I could visualize the faces when I told them that.


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#30 Hedgehog

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 09:42 AM

There is a lot to be said for encouraging them to think outside the box.  Even more to be said for reminding them there really isn't a box.

 

Our incoming SPL and one of the ASPLs were over my house the other night because they had questions about the NYLT program my son attended in June because they were going in August.  After they were done talking to my son, I told them that they should use what they learn to transform the Troop and that if they had any ideas how to change things in the Troop that I would back them up.  

 

We then talked about the leadership campout.  I mentioned an idea my son, one of his buddies and I came up with to watch Monte Python and the Holy Grail on the campout.  Their eyes lit up.  I told them that we could do other fun things on the campout including water baloon fights, rock climbing, etc. because I want it to be fun not just a bunch of lectures.  They started smiling.

 

We talked about ideas for the first two campouts for the next year - the first being a canoing trip across a lake to camp on an island and the second being a beach campout.  Then the SPL asked, can we do that trip where we did the hike across the boulder fields and up the rock faces?  I turned to him and said "I'm not in charge, you guys are.  Whatever the PLC wants to do, I will work with you guys to make it happen."  I think they got it.  I think they understood that if they imagine it, the Troop can do it. 


Edited by Hedgehog, 31 July 2016 - 09:43 AM.

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#31 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 07:07 PM

So, I posted the plan for tomorrow that the Scouts came up with, editing out that they are doing the lesson and making it appear that I am doing instead. One of the adults sent me some suggestions. What I find funny is that A) I've been doing and teaching canoeing for over 25 years,  and the plan the Scouts posted is 95% what I would do normally, and they think my 5% suggestion makes sense and are going to add it. B) Last time we planned for 2 meetings in the water, something came up and it ended up being 1, and C) Part of the "lecturing" is being done while the canoes are being unloaded by the older Scouts, which is in the plan.

 

Maybe some folks just cannot stand not being in control?


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#32 Ankylus

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 12:14 PM

Seems to me that part of the problem here started way back some months ago--you got yourself an SPL who is not interested in the job and happy to let the adults take over. 

 

The problem here lies in the selection process for SPL. You say he only took the job because he felt obligated in light of his nomination. So who nominated him? If he nominated himself, then that's a problem. But I am willing to bet an adult nominated him.

 

One way to address this is to let the scouts self-nominate. If a scout wants a high level job, let him throw his own hat in the ring. Make him put together a "scouting resume" with his qualifications and goals. Discuss those things with him, let  him get some skin in the game.  Of course, you may have a situation where no scout wants the job. Then you may have to resort to this kind of thing. But we put a strong emphasis on scouts having to seek out their own PORs that seems to translate into more senior positions as well. We still get slackers sometimes, but I think it helps weed out the slackers.


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#33 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 12:51 PM

Actually he was nominated by one scout, and seconded by another. No self nomination or adult nominations allowed.

 

I think part of the problem is that whatever plans the Scouts do make, adults interfere. They get frustrated to the point of 'Why bother?"  It's interesting in that while chatting with the SPL and another Scout about the meeting I'm "in charge of" and letting them come up with stuff to do, there was a vitality in the chat I have not seen in them for some time.

 

My job tonite is to keep the adults out of the way. Gunship is making suggestions to improve the meeting, and I have a feeling I will need to ring him in. Especially for part of the night. Instead of usual "do this, do that, ..." instruction on familiarizing with canoes, they guys plan on doing some games. It will be organized chaos, that I hope A) will allow them to work on skills and B) have FUN, and C) Show the adults that you need to let the Scout do their thing.


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#34 Hedgehog

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 04:34 PM

Maybe some folks just cannot stand not being in control?

 

 

 

Gunship is making suggestions to improve the meeting, 

 

 

I think you answered your own question.  Good luck tonight.  You might need to bring donuts to go along with the coffee.


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#35 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 08:16 PM

Interesting night, Talked to the incoming SM about he need for an adult meeting to go over the problem of adults interfering.

 

I'm on beer #2.


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#36 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 10:13 PM

Had an interesting conversation with the wife about this. One suggestion she offered that I hadn't thought of is that since it's the Older Scouts who are doing a lot of the complaining and being bored, and since the CO does want to start a Venturing Crew, and since they have been trying to get the wife  to be involved with the new crew, is that I start the Venturing crew and by the time it's fully underway, oldet will be able to join.

 

I just cannot handle the adults treating the Scouts like Cubs.


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#37 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 10:52 AM

Update. It's been confirmed we are getting a new SM, and it's the heir apparent. He's been ''neutral'' seeing both sides of the factions. He's in the process of arranging ALL registered adults, committee and direct contact, to have a sitdown meeting in the next 3 weeks and iron things out. Formal change will be at next COH.

Going to be interesting.
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#38 qwazse

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 10:14 AM

Had an interesting conversation with the wife about this. One suggestion she offered that I hadn't thought of is that since it's the Older Scouts who are doing a lot of the complaining and being bored, and since the CO does want to start a Venturing Crew, and since they have been trying to get the wife  to be involved with the new crew, is that I start the Venturing crew and by the time it's fully underway, oldet will be able to join.
 
I just cannot handle the adults treating the Scouts like Cubs.

Okay let me camly explain this with all due respect to Mrs. E94 ...
DO NOT EVEN ENTERTAIN STARTING A CREW UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES!!!!!!!!!!!

I've posted reasons elsewhere. But it boils down to a big case of no-matter-where-you-go-there-you are.

If another couple of adults want to make that happen, give them the DE's number and ask to stay out of it.
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#39 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 01:38 PM

I'm waiting to find out what's going on, and it's all up to my boys as to what they want to do. With new leadership comes new vision. Plus Gunship made the comment about leaving after July, and also that he wants to help get the troop that has had some problems out. Now that troop meets on the same nite as us.

 

SWMBO was a Venturing leader once upon a time, is into camping and backpacking, and really wants the crew started. When she was asked to be an AA once before, she almost lept at the opportunity, but had family issues and  couldn't.

 

Me personally, I want top start a Sea Scout ship. ;)


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#40 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 28 August 2016 - 11:36 AM

Update.

 

The adults, minus the CC/COR and the IH, met.   Definite changes are headed our way, as well as some of the same.

 

Changes I like include

 

PLC meeting monthly for a "long" meeting and 15 minutes before each meeting.

 

Scouts run the meetings and doing more instructing. Also Interpatrol Activities will be incorporated.

 

Adults quit reforming the troop and keeping the current patrols, with adding new members to existing patrols; no more NSPs.

 

PLC members responsible for meeting the Scouts' advancement.

 

BORs scheduled for every month AND no more multiple Scouts having a BOR.

 

Same Old Same Old: 

 

Adults will be assigned to work with patrols. I told them I disagree with it because it's too easy to to turn it back into Cub Scouts. But majority said they are not ready to work 100% alone. Eventually

 

While PLC members can say the Scout has met requirements, Scouts cannot sign off on them still,. only an adult.

 

Changes I disagree with:  Before having an SMC, Scouts will be retested by the ASM assignd to their patrol to make sure they are proficient in the skills. Which begs the question: If adults are the only ones signing off, why the need for testing before an SMC?


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