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Eagle board of review?


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#41 scoutldr

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 09:29 AM

We don't even look at dates of MB or rank advancement.  Scouts and leaders should get all that straight before the EBOR is scheduled.  If the Council Registrar as signed the application certifying that all dates are correct, we are good to go.  I am a "District Rep" on EBOR conducted at the unit level.


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#42 Tampa Turtle

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 09:45 AM

Yup. All that checking needs to stop at some point or the finish line will never be met.


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#43 MrBob

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 10:28 AM

Yup. All that checking needs to stop at some point or the finish line will never be met.

 

We usually have one last check at the lad's Eagle Court of Honor.  Haven't had to rip a medal off a Scout's uniform yet, but you never know!!!

 

 

(I kid, I kid!!!)


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#44 perdidochas

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 07:31 AM

One of the reasons why I do a pre-EBOR with the boys is because even if they have had the opportunity to be in a boy-led program, the EBOR members may not.  How does one respectfully take on a panel of austere older scouters when the candidate is in his mid teens?  Sure, if I were to do a practice with the boys, they know me, they know what I teach, they are excellent scouts for the most part.  But put in a room in a panel of unknown adults, all bets come off the table.  Sure they have gone through a few BORs over the years, the people on the panel are committee members and parents or both.  These are familiar faces and they know these people.  When I go into EBOR's with my boys, even I DON"T KNOW who these people are and I've been in the council with units in all three districts!  So in light of that, I practice and train the boys on what to expect because it is NOT the same old BOR they have been used to in the past.

 

Different councils may be set up differently and much of what I do would not be an issue, but we need to deal with the hand we're dealt and so we practice for the unknown and unexpected.

 

You don't have troop committee members/parents on the EBOR?  I know we have, and based on comments from them, they were glad that they were there--they have insights into the boys' experience that the district folks never have. That, and it does give the Eagle candidate familiar faces to have in the room with him.


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#45 perdidochas

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 07:37 AM

We don't even look at dates of MB or rank advancement.  Scouts and leaders should get all that straight before the EBOR is scheduled.  If the Council Registrar as signed the application certifying that all dates are correct, we are good to go.  I am a "District Rep" on EBOR conducted at the unit level.

Yup, for the EBORs I've been part of , that wasn't an issue--the council registrar has already ironed that stuff out. 


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#46 Stosh

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 11:19 AM

You don't have troop committee members/parents on the EBOR?  I know we have, and based on comments from them, they were glad that they were there--they have insights into the boys' experience that the district folks never have. That, and it does give the Eagle candidate familiar faces to have in the room with him.

 

The only people involved with an EBOR in our council from the troop is the candidate and SM and the SM is optional.  Like I said, most of the people on the EBOR panel are people I have never met before.  They can be coming in from out-of-council as far as I know.  No familiar faces.  This is why I do pre-EBOR work with the boys so that they don't get over-whelmed when they walk in the room.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#47 Beavah

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 12:07 PM

You don't have troop committee members/parents on the EBOR?  I know we have, and based on comments from them, they were glad that they were there--they have insights into the boys' experience that the district folks never have. That, and it does give the Eagle candidate familiar faces to have in the room with him.

 

Yah, @perdidochas, it depends on your local area, eh?

 

Some councils or districts do EBORs at the unit level and send a district or council person as a representative, like what happens in your area.  I confess I prefer that approach, eh?  I think it shows respect for da unit and chartered partner who have put in 6-7 years with the boy, and allows 'em to fully participate in one of the Great Paychecks of Scouting.   I also think it's better for the boy to have familiar faces that he knows and thinks highly of review and recognize him as a young adult.   Strangers from da council just aren't the same.

 

In some councils, though, EBORs are a district/council function.  So nobody from the unit participates, except that a SM might sit in quietly.  The lad gets 3-6 strangers for his board who don't really know him.   Usually this sort of EBOR is set on a particular day of the month at some central location with many candidates scheduled, so the amount of time and attention each lad gets is more limited (and on a schedule).  These are the ones where a boy is more likely to be "surprised" by adult questions or behaviors, eh?  In fact, there are fair odds that da folks sittin' on his board will be associated with a troop he/his parents chose not to join because it wasn't a good fit, and now they're conductin' his Eagle review.  :rolleyes:

 

Like @Stosh says, in my experience that's where we're most like to see da "practice" EBORs at the unit level.  Only fair to the lad in some ways.  I just don't think it makes for great Scoutin'.   To cap it off, places where district-level EBORs are held are more likely to have officious district people who wanted control of da EBOR, so it sorta selects for more problematic adult behavior.  :p

 

Beavah


Edited by Beavah, 21 July 2016 - 12:08 PM.

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#48 Tampa Turtle

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 07:19 AM

Beavah,

 

Our is as you just described....usually by folks in our district from neighboring Troops. 2-3 boys scheduled once or twice a month. We try to have a scouter/committee member sit in on the others...they usually are short handed and it gives you insight (more importantly it is fun and rewarding). I once was around during a couple from my Troop and waited with the families. I think my only function was to josh with the boys and tell some favorite (positive) memories before they go in. I do think on either model it is good to have some Troop non-parents adults along for the ride as a sign of respect for the boys.

 

Occasionally our lads get guff as we are a 'no necker' Troop by long tradition; it helps to have a troop leader in the building to confirm that they are in 'full uniform'. "Oh they are from THAT unit".


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#49 Horizon

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 12:12 PM

We do the practice - but it is treated as a practice. We do a uniform inspection, and check to see if all MBs are on the sash (that one popped up too). We go through the paperwork one last time, and make sure the candidate has everything in their binder (another Council thing). Everything we cover is based on things that have happened to candidates in the past. We also make sure that if the Scout is NOT from a Christian church, that they are comfortable with answering / responding to some of the inappropriate questions that have come in the past as well. 

 

So it is truly a prep session, not a Troop EBOR.

 

Some of you say you would never prep an older Scouter - I do that all the time for friends interviewing at new companies. Every firm is different in what they want or expect, and just because you sailed through a meeting with IBM does not mean you are ready for Google, and Apple is a whole different game depending on the level of the position. So, yeah, I consider it my job as a leader to help young boys become men - and that includes role-playing out different types of interview situations.


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#50 Hedgehog

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 12:53 PM

Our Eagle SMC's are, in part, preparation for the EBORs.  We tell our scouts that the questions asked at the SMC will be more difficult than the questions asked at the EBOR and they are.


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#51 Stosh

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 02:28 PM

Our Eagle SMC's are, in part, preparation for the EBORs.  We tell our scouts that the questions asked at the SMC will be more difficult than the questions asked at the EBOR and they are.

 

:)  I teach my boys that the longer the answer they provide the less time the panel will have to ask another question.  Short answers means many questions.  Long answers means fewer questions.  I had my one boy get asked only 4 questions for his whole EBOR.  His buddy the same night got 22 questions.  Some boys listen to my advice, others don't.  


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#52 Eagledad

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 06:05 PM

For Petes sake, if the adults act afraid of the EBOR, the scouts are certainly going to be afraid. Some of you adults preach treating your scouts like adults, tricks and cheats doesn't sound adult to me.

What bothers me is some of these adults here whining about EBORs are the same adults whining about pencil whipped Eagles. It is said that our kids are a reflection of their parents. Are Eagles a reflection of their Scoutmasters?

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#53 NJCubScouter

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 09:59 AM

:)  I teach my boys that the longer the answer they provide the less time the panel will have to ask another question.  Short answers means many questions.  Long answers means fewer questions.  I had my one boy get asked only 4 questions for his whole EBOR.  His buddy the same night got 22 questions.  Some boys listen to my advice, others don't.  

 

I have learned to be careful of making assumptions, especially in certain situations, like when there is a "smiley face" included in a post.  I usually include a smiley face when I mean "Just kidding."  So, before I make a comment on this:  Are you just kidding, Stosh?  Or do you really advise your boys to give long answers to questions and tell them it is because it means they will have to answer fewer questions?


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#54 Stosh

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 12:50 PM

When dealing directly with my boys on important issues one does not need to assume anything.  My sarcasm and/or kidding is obvious.  If not pay attention next time.  I try my best to be clear, but there are those on forums that will always assume the worst on comments and I have no control over that, nor do I worry about it.  It's not my problem.

 

Normal convention for the EBOR's around here is the boy sits quietly and fields the questions posed to him.  He can either grunt a one or two word answer and get another question or he can go into a long dissertation on the subject explaining in great detail how it has impacted his life and future and postpone any new questions until the board members interrupt him.  The smiley face indicates that when the boy takes charge of his EBOR and controls the flow of the discussion in his favor, it's a really fun thing to watch.  Boys who abdicate this control generally end up feeling like they got the 5th Degree.   

 

My smiley faces generally indicate that although important, what I am saying need not be taken as dead serious.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#55 NJCubScouter

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 01:43 PM

Stosh, you haven't answered the question.  Do you advise the boys that they should give long answers to reduce the number of questions?


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#56 Stosh

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 03:24 PM

:)  I teach my boys that the longer the answer they provide the less time the panel will have to ask another question.  Short answers means many questions.  Long answers means fewer questions.  I had my one boy get asked only 4 questions for his whole EBOR.  His buddy the same night got 22 questions.  Some boys listen to my advice, others don't.  

 

Yep as the post says.  The boy with the 4 questions went on to be the Golden Eagle Banquet speaker for the council's major donor fund raiser.  The boy did not just rattle on wasting time, he gave a full and complete detail of an answer to their questions.  They asked about his Eagle Project and he started out, "I know you have the details of the written report, but let me tell you about the background work I did....."  The guys on the board weren't in any hurry to cut him off.


Edited by Stosh, 24 July 2016 - 03:25 PM.

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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#57 MrBob

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 03:47 PM

Stosh, you haven't answered the question.  Do you advise the boys that they should give long answers to reduce the number of questions?

 

I think the defendant has made it abundantly clear that he counsels the youth in his charge to give "complete" answers to questions, rather than simple "yessah" or "nosah" mumblings, to reduce the number of follow-up inquiries such that the review process can move along expeditiously. 


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#58 NJCubScouter

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 04:09 PM

Stosh, the reason I was asking about this was that from the post I quoted, it sounded like you regarded the EBOR members as being sort of adversaries to the boys (and to you), and also as being a bunch of nitwits who could be fooled into asking fewer questions by a long-winded answer.  I will choose to infer from your response that that was not your intention.

 

As an EBOR member myself, I prefer a comprehensive answer that allows the Scout to show that he is able to think and respond, that he has learned something and has the ability to share it, and that he is not afraid to speak to adults.  But it isn't going to reduce the number of questions we ask, because there is no time limit.  (Well I guess we would get thrown out of the hall at some point so the custodian can lock up, but no EBOR I have ever participated in has gone nearly that long.  And in fact we tend to only ask 2 or 3 questions per board member anyway.  For me, the EBOR is often the sixth BOR I have done with the same Scout, so there really shouldn't be too much new under the Sun other than talking about their project and their future plans.  I suppose it might be a little different if I were the "district guy" and didn't know the Scout, but in our district those guys tend to ask NO questions, or maybe just one follow-up to one of the questions the troop committee members have asked.)


Edited by NJCubScouter, 24 July 2016 - 05:28 PM.

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#59 Stosh

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 04:43 PM

It would seem that every council does it differently.  No troop involvement at all at any EBOR except the SM is invited to observe and at the end the Board maybe will ask a question or two of the SM with the candidate not present.

 

They do have quite a number of candidates in that they hold EBOR's monthly for one evening, so scheduling is strict and the more the boy talks the less questions he will get.

 

It's not like the guys tend to be adversarial, it's just that they will probably not be asking the kinds of questions the boys were used to with troop personnel involved.

 

I always remind my boys that this board is THEIR EBOR and they have a right to control what's going on during the session as much as the adults.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#60 NJCubScouter

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 05:32 PM

I always remind my boys that this board is THEIR EBOR and they have a right to control what's going on during the session as much as the adults.

 

I suspect that if any of them took that too literally, they would find out it isn't really true.  But they probably realize (or, at least, "assume") that you aren't being entirely serious about that one either.


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