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Eagle board of review?


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#1 zuzy

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 09:57 AM

When the scout has SMC does the troop do a board of review for the rank BEFORE the actual Eagle board of review.

In the scout book, there is a spot that needs to be checked off for SMC and the a board of review below needs to be checked off.
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#2 MrBob

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 10:09 AM

There is only one board of review for each rank.

 

If your Council does Eagle BORs at the District- or Council-level (like mine does), then that's it - there's no unit-level pre-BOR.


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#3 NJCubScouter

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 04:09 PM

I have recently become aware that some troops in my district do have a "troop board of review" before the official EBOR. Ours does not. I think these are really "practice" EBOR's, so they could potentially benefit the Scout - but only if it is conducted in a way that makes the Scout more prepared for the EBOR and reduces (rather than increasing) the Scout's anxiety about the whole thing.

I believe the GTA says that a Scout cannot be REQUIRED to participate in an unofficial or practice EBOR, but it does not prohibit them.

(Moving this to Advancement section.)

Edited by NJCubScouter, 16 July 2016 - 04:14 PM.

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#4 MrBob

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 04:42 PM

"The BSA discourages mock or practice boards of review. “Practice” reviews may imply that board members will ask predetermined questions or that the board of review is anticipated to be other than a positive experience."

 

G2A, pg. 56

 

 

"10. An Eagle candidate may have only one board of review (though it may be adjourned and reconvened). Subsequent action falls under the appeals process. (See “Appealing a Decision,” 8.0.4.0.)"

 

G2A, pg. 59

 

 

 

Don't do "troop" board of review prior to the "real thing", unless everyone participating, including the Scout and his parents, are completely aware that its a mock review and that it doesn't count and agree to it, otherwise you'll trigger an appeals process.


Edited by MrBob, 16 July 2016 - 04:44 PM.

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#5 Stosh

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 05:10 PM

:)  I always do a BOR for the old Scout award.  I told my boys it was a freebie one so they would have some idea the kinds of things they would be asked once they got to their actual rank advancements.  Anyway, the boys liked them because my committee used the opportunity to make sure the boy wasn't going to feel intimidated and it was upbeat and encouraging for the boys.  I always would do an SM AAR after wards to get an idea of the boys' reaction.  None of them had a negative reaction and 90% said they were nervous going in but it wasn't as bad as they thought it was going to be.  Some initially thought was likened to getting called into the principle's office.

 

For Eagle I have a pre-EBOR session besides the SMC.  I give them pointers and the session is optional.  Boys that take my pre-EBOR session fare far better at their EBOR than those that don't.


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#6 qwazse

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 09:14 PM

If boys ask, we'll have a practice BoR with whatever ASMs are available.
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#7 Oldscout448

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 11:18 AM

In our troop we always have the committee do an eagle board of review all of the scouts are very aware will be done at a district-level so this is really just a last chance for the scouters to listen to the 16-17 year olds reflections on his scouting career. It's amazing to listen to the insight from someone who was just a tenderfoot a year ago. Or was it two or tbree or... six! How did that happen? We talk about what Eagle means to them, what it means in the eyes of others, what their plans are, and anything they want to talk about. The most common theme is the scouters don't challenge the scouts to do more.

Edited by Oldscout448, 17 July 2016 - 11:25 AM.

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#8 vumbi

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 08:46 PM

Our Eagle guy merely counsels them on what is the usual content of the EBOR and answers any questions the boy has about the process. The EBOR usually takes about 30 minutes or so. Mine was all of about 10 minutes way back when.


Edited by vumbi, 17 July 2016 - 08:46 PM.

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#9 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 06:48 AM

We haven't gotten that far yet. Highest ranking Scout is Star. However, our district advancement committee, which is really the Eagle BOR as they don't really handle all the other stuff involved, does a yearly meeting for all Life Scouts, parents, and leaders interested. Don't know if Star Scouts are invited, but if they are, I'm hoping to have one particular Scout attend if he can finish up one requirement for Communications, and have a BOR this month.


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#10 Eagledad

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 09:38 AM

Hmm, this is interesting. I've never heard of practice EBORs.

 

Maybe our EBORs (done by District) are easy, or our scouts are just above average, but the BORs not challenging. I spent a little time explaining the EBOR format during my SM Conference with the scout by giving few general examples, but that was more to show him that nothing will be asked he doesn't know.  

 

Practice EBORs? What does your EBORs ask that typical Life scouts don't already know?

 

Barry


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#11 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 09:48 AM

Hmm, this is interesting. I've never heard of practice EBORs.

 

Maybe our EBORs (done by District) are easy, or our scouts are just above average, but the BORs not challenging. I spent a little time explaining the EBOR format during my SM Conference with the scout by giving few general examples, but that was more to show him that nothing will be asked he doesn't know.  

 

Practice EBORs? What does your EBORs ask that typical Life scouts don't already know?

 

Barry

 

Yes, I've never heard of a practice EBOR until I moved to NC. Only reason I can think doing it here locally is that when the council went from troops holding EBORs with a district rep to district level EBORs, the troops kept doing them anyway, calling them practice.

 

Personally I think it's a waste of time. But that is me.


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#12 Stosh

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 10:03 AM

Yes, I've never heard of a practice EBOR until I moved to NC. Only reason I can think doing it here locally is that when the council went from troops holding EBORs with a district rep to district level EBORs, the troops kept doing them anyway, calling them practice.

 

Personally I think it's a waste of time. But that is me.

 

I offer up a chance for the Eagle candidates to visit in a session as prep for EBOR.  What they did with that information is up to them.  I had one boy who sat through my "session" and did not pay attention to what I suggested.  In fact the Board asked him 22 questions he grunted and gave one or two word answers to.  They asked me in closed session what my take was on the boy and I told them I had submitted my form letter SM recommendation to the council and it should be in the paperwork.  Of course they passed him on through to Eagle, but it wasn't a stellar moment for the boy.  He really didn't care, his dad had Eagled so he was going through the motions to satisfy him.  The next boy that evening was another of my Eagle candidates and he followed to a "T" my suggestions.  He walked in, took control of the situation and the Board was able to only ask him 4 questions.  He walked in, stood before the panel, saluted and held it.  The Board did not know how to respond to that.  Finally one of them told the boy saluting other scouters was not respectful, to which the boy cited chapter verse and page number of the Scout Handbook that it was an appropriate way to show respect.  After that I think the Board was a bit nervous about asking him questions.  :)  He was the Eagle Scout speaker at the Council's Golden Eagle Banquet that year.

 

Some boys benefit from learning, others do not.  I create opportunities, it 's up to the boys to make the best of them.


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#13 Tampa Turtle

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 10:24 AM

We always practice as an option. Some boys just need some practice, reassurance, or an idea what it might be like. Our Life to Eagle lady just sat with my son and asked him some practice questions--he seemed ready so that was that.


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#14 Eagledad

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 10:38 AM

 

 

Some boys benefit from learning, others do not.  I create opportunities, it 's up to the boys to make the best of them.

Opportunity? What does a scout in your troop learn during your practice EBOR that he doesn't already know?

 

I don't get it, but one thing I've learned on this forum lately is that troops have a culture of expectation and each troop is different.

 

Our culture expects a scout to act with a minimum maturity the represents his rank. A life scout is expected to act with the same maturity of the adults in the troop. And they are held accountable when they don't live up to that expectation. That maturity includes the scout taking personal responsibility for his knowledge of skills and his character. I guess we just wouldn't see a point to a practice EBOR when our scouts are at their best.

 

This is not to say our scouts are exceptional, I don't mean that at all. What I mean is we expect scouts going in an EBOR to already be ready by the fact they have reached that point in the program. What more does a Life Scout need to learn that he hasn't already learned and experienced? Seems like the troop is taking the scout's personal business a little too personally. 

 

Barry


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#15 Eagledad

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 10:50 AM

We always practice as an option. Some boys just need some practice, reassurance, or an idea what it might be like.

I do understand the reassurance part. But it is funny, I find the source of doubt in most cases to come from the parents. When a scout asked me for the Eagle Scoutmaster Conference, I always asked the scout to invite his parents if he doesn't mind. About 50% of the parents accept the invite, and it was usually those parents that had some concern about the EBOR. So I usually addressed the few example questions more for the parents benefit so that they could feel relaxed and allow their son to feel relaxed. But again, since we assume the scout is ready, our demeanor also reflects our confidence in him.

 

Barry


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#16 qwazse

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 11:34 AM

I do understand the reassurance part. But it is funny, I find the source of doubt in most cases to come from the parents. When a scout asked me for the Eagle Scoutmaster Conference, I always asked the scout to invite his parents if he doesn't mind. About 50% of the parents accept the invite, and it was usually those parents that had some concern about the EBOR. So I usually addressed the few example questions more for the parents benefit so that they could feel relaxed and allow their son to feel relaxed. But again, since we assume the scout is ready, our demeanor also reflects our confidence in him.

 

Barry

Naw, our highest-achieving scouts (in school or sports) are the ones with the most doubt. It's usually all the boy's cogitation, and drives parents a little nuts. Maybe it's because many of them are getting the BoR at about the same time they are applying for college. Sometimes those first few rejections have come in. So, that lot seems to need a little coaching.

 

It could also be, that since the district members come to the unit and unit committee members are on the board, our scouts might be a little more sensitive to the fact that folks on the board already know the good, the bad, and the ugly about the boy. :eek:  For a while we had a high rate of Eagles, so the boys might also have been feeling that they didn't hold a candle to the guy before them.

 

Lately, our scouts have been more laid back about the process, and haven't been asking for as many tips. I think that's a good thing. The outcome is pretty much the same, I guess. Just giving the boys who need it a little more time, and a little less stress.


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#17 CherokeeScouter

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 11:58 AM

I think we ought to follow Scouting's recommendation  and discourage practice BORs. I think the SM offering tips or suggestions prior to  the BOR is reasonable. 

 

I serve on Eagle BORs. One thing I have done is to go back to the Troop and try and make our rank BORs somewhat like the Eagle BORs in so much as this is possible. There are obvious differences. But in the upper rank BORs, I engage the candidate on leadership, what Scouting means to them, etc. - very similar questions to Eagle BOR.

 

And our district starts Eagle BORs with the same three things we start every Troop BOR with - a uniform inspection, the Scout Oath and the Scout Law. So, when a Scout approaches me about his upcoming BOR, this exactly what I tell him:

 

"It's not too different from our Troop BOR. You will  find a lot of similarities. But be prepared to talk at length about your Eagle project and to discuss things such as leadership and what you have gotten out of Scouting."

 

That's all I tell him. 


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#18 T2Eagle

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 12:02 PM

As a guess, I would say that troops that provide practice EBORs have an expectation that the EBOR itself is going to be difficult, probably because the EBORs ask "gotcha" questions, or have a particular set of expectations about how a scout should answer and/or what a scout should answer.  If that's the EBOR your scout will face than a practice EBOR isn't a bad idea, and practicing anything usually makes you better at it.

 

As a professional I have interviewed hundreds of job candidates, most of them for jobs requiring a college or even graduate degree.  I long ago stopped being surprised at folks who are otherwise very capable in their field who are not particularly good at that type of communication.  My role as an interviewer is to find out whether the person will be good at the job not whether they are good at interviewing.  Likewise an EBOR has a responsibility to "determine the quality of [a scout's] experience and decide whether he has fulfilled the requirements for the rank', not to decide if they're good at playing rhetorical games with adults.  

 

If your EBORs are difficult for scouts whose other advancement achievements you've approved, then you should be working at changing your EBORs, but in the mean time you probably should help your scouts prepare for them because it's not really reasonable to expect a 17 year old doing something for the first time to be as extemporaneously clever as a group of fifty somethings who are probably doing something for dozenth time. 


Edited by T2Eagle, 18 July 2016 - 12:04 PM.

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#19 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 12:43 PM

When I say I find a troop's practice EBOR, here's the reasons. 

 

1) The DAC and/or EBOR members have a yearly meeting talking about the entire Life to Eagle process: i.e. projects approval process, paperwork involved, the EBOR, etc. I attended part of one (it was the same night as Roundtable), and it was extremely informative. It does prepare Scouts for the entire process and I want to take my son to the next one as soon as he is able to.

 

2) From I've been told, these "practice" EBORs are harder, more difficult, and are more on the lines of retests than a true BOR.

 

3) I've been told that some Scouts who have "failed" their "practice" EBOR are not allowed to have a district EBOR until the unit approves.


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#20 NJCubScouter

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 01:52 PM

1) The DAC and/or EBOR members have a yearly meeting talking about the entire Life to Eagle process: i.e. projects approval process, paperwork involved, the EBOR, etc. I attended part of one (it was the same night as Roundtable), and it was extremely informative. It does prepare Scouts for the entire process and I want to take my son to the next one as soon as he is able to.


In our council one of the sessions at the annual University of Scouting is basically the same as that.
 

2) From I've been told, these "practice" EBORs are harder, more difficult, and are more on the lines of retests than a true BOR.


That is clearly what is being "discouraged" in the G2A.
 

3) I've been told that some Scouts who have "failed" their "practice" EBOR are not allowed to have a district EBOR until the unit approves.


Now we're way past "discouraged". That is clearly improper. They are adding another mandatory step to the process.
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