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Camp Staffers Fired for Trying to Rescue Bald Eagle


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#1 scoutldr

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 08:29 AM

http://pilotonline.c...4fc2bc31a3.html

 

Camp Marriott, Goshen Scout Reservation


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#2 Lurking...

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 08:55 AM

Seriously?  Helping a bird in distress?  Kudos to the twins, shame on the camp.  There is nothing wrong with what the kids did.  The camp showed extreme un-scoutlike behavior in addressing the issue and was more worried about their own butts than in doing what is right.  Getting fired from that camp is a gold star on their resumes in my book!


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#3 desertrat77

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 09:12 AM

Seriously?  Helping a bird in distress?  Kudos to the twins, shame on the camp.  There is nothing wrong with what the kids did.  The camp showed extreme un-scoutlike behavior in addressing the issue and was more worried about their own butts than in doing what is right.  Getting fired from that camp is a gold star on their resumes in my book!

 

Stosh, I agree 100 percent.

 

You can imagine what "management" consists of at that camp, day to day, hurt eagles aside.


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#4 T2Eagle

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 10:06 AM

There are some holes in the story and probably lots of poor communication.  It sounds like the camp was getting advice from one set of experts and the staffers were getting conflicting advice from another:

 

 "Bourgeois said Jolly contacted him about the injured bird - specifically, asking Bourgeois to identify the animal. Bourgeois also said Jolly had contacted the game warden to ask what should be done about the injured eagle."

 

If the Camp was being told in no uncertain terms not to touch the bird it's hard to fault them for wanting to follow that directive; it seems like a more difficult call than the headline would lead you to believe.

 

From the Camp's perspective, if they were told by a game warden to do nothing, than the staffers' actions look a lot like the idiots who "rescued" a baby bison earlier this year.


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#5 Lurking...

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 10:20 AM

Although the Bald Eagle is no longer on the endangered species listing, it is by Federal law protected as our national symbol.  Unless one has written permission, even possessing so much as a single Eagle feather is a federal crime.  Having a whole bird is totally illegal.  The only people who are allowed possession of anything Eagle are indigenous natives for religious and ceremonial reasons and those with permits.

 

Now, that being said, the two could have been been arrested on federal charges, which in federal law, considering the circumstances would have been overlooked in that the intent was not to possess the bird or to harm it, but to rescue it.  Even CNN would have had a hay day with that one.


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#6 NJCubScouter

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 12:04 PM

As with most of these kinds of stories, I have to wonder whether we are getting the entire story.

Although in this case, it is difficult to imagine what facts would justify the firing of these staff members. They tried to save the eagle and did not succeed, but there is no doubt at all about what would have happened if they had done nothing, or even waited for the camp administration to decide what to do.
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#7 David CO

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 12:07 PM

Sometimes bald eagles are the predators.  Sometimes they're the prey.  This is how nature works.


Edited by David CO, 12 July 2016 - 12:09 PM.

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#8 perdidochas

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 12:34 PM

There are some holes in the story and probably lots of poor communication.  It sounds like the camp was getting advice from one set of experts and the staffers were getting conflicting advice from another:

 

 "Bourgeois said Jolly contacted him about the injured bird - specifically, asking Bourgeois to identify the animal. Bourgeois also said Jolly had contacted the game warden to ask what should be done about the injured eagle."

 

If the Camp was being told in no uncertain terms not to touch the bird it's hard to fault them for wanting to follow that directive; it seems like a more difficult call than the headline would lead you to believe.

 

From the Camp's perspective, if they were told by a game warden to do nothing, than the staffers' actions look a lot like the idiots who "rescued" a baby bison earlier this year.

 

I didn't get the above from the article posted at all. Please point out where the game warden says he told them to  do nothing?  I'm with the kids on this one. The Camp director was making things up to justify his actions.  The district biologist said they did the right thing. 

 

Also, this isn't like the baby bison story. They talked to wildlife rehabilitation specialists before doing anything. The only thing they did wrong was to not obey their boss, who gave a questionable order.


Edited by perdidochas, 12 July 2016 - 12:36 PM.

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#9 perdidochas

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 12:37 PM

Although the Bald Eagle is no longer on the endangered species listing, it is by Federal law protected as our national symbol.  Unless one has written permission, even possessing so much as a single Eagle feather is a federal crime.  Having a whole bird is totally illegal.  The only people who are allowed possession of anything Eagle are indigenous natives for religious and ceremonial reasons and those with permits.

 

Now, that being said, the two could have been been arrested on federal charges, which in federal law, considering the circumstances would have been overlooked in that the intent was not to possess the bird or to harm it, but to rescue it.  Even CNN would have had a hay day with that one.

The district biologist couldn't think of any crime they may have committed. 


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#10 Lurking...

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 12:58 PM

My Great-great Grandfather was a member of Company C, 8th Wisconsin Infantry during the Civil War.  Their mascot was Old Abe, the War Eagle.  The reeacting group that portrays the 8th has a mounted Bald Eagle.  The hoops they had to jump through to keep possession of the bird when the law changed was pretty heavy duty.  I also have friends who are full blooded Indigenous also have and continue to make full traditional clothing with the Federal Government's blessing.

 

I do know that if one is to find a carcass of a Bald Eagle, one must not touch it, but report it immediately to the DNR or other agency to deal with it. 

 

I don't know what it specifically says about rescuing a live bird, but I'm thinking it may have a bit of slack for good intentions built in.

 

https://www.fws.gov/...rsFactSheet.pdf


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#11 Tampa Turtle

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 02:09 PM

Event if what they did was wrong (and I am not sure it was) their intent was good and they should have gotten a pass. To be fired shows the Director to be a Martinet PLUS bad PR for the Camp and BSA to boot.


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#12 SSScout

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 03:21 PM

Wouldn't be the first time some BSA folks got bad press for acting in haste.   I would be interested in where these young Scouters call home.   NCAC camp, 


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#13 SSScout

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 10:41 AM

Larger story, pictures,   still sad.    https://www.washingt...7a9d_story.html


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#14 Tampa Turtle

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 11:04 AM

Boy, I should have not read the comments...


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#15 scoutldr

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 12:17 PM

I am on the fence.  As a manager and supervisor, if I tell an employee NOT to do something and they do it anyway, I am not doing my job if I let it pass.  On the other hand, it is my responsibility to know or find out what the right thing to do is.  It is NOT appropriate for a staff member to "jump the chain" and contact authorities directly if they don't like the answer I gave them.  At the very least, this scout reservation now has the opportunity to clarify in no uncertain terms what the policy is.


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#16 David CO

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 12:38 PM

I believe in respecting nature.  Included in my respect for nature is an understanding and appreciation of the predator/prey relationship that exists in nature.

 

Nature can seem cruel, and predators appear to be oblivious to the suffering they cause to their prey.  

 

I have very much enjoyed studying and observing nature, but I don't mind admitting that some things in nature can still make me wince.  That's human nature, I suppose, and not an entirely bad thing.

 

I don't believe in interfering with nature.  If my sensibilities are offended, I avert my eyes or walk away.

 

It is entirely different when animals are injured when venturing into the human environment.  In that case, it is certainly appropriate for us to tend to them and return them to their natural surroundings.  I applaud the work of the good people who do so.

 

That said, I would not at all appreciate it if one of these good people were to characterize me as being unscoutlike for my hands-off attitude toward wildlife in nature.  I would definitely not tolerate it from a subordinate.


Edited by David CO, 14 July 2016 - 01:17 PM.

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#17 Lurking...

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 03:09 PM

A few times I have come across a car/deer accident, even ones where I've hit the deer.  If the deer is obviously mortally wounded, I will put it down ASAP to minimize it's suffering.  To date, no law enforcement officer has ever charged me with shooting deer out of season.


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#18 TAHAWK

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 04:36 PM

I an effort to clear the jam, the applicable legal standard as set out by the federal department with jurisdiction seems to be:

 

"Can someone without a permit help a sick, injured, or orphaned migratory bird? Any person who finds a sick, injured, or orphaned migratory bird may, without a permit, take possession of the bird in order to immediately transport it to a permitted rehabilitator."  

 

https://www.fws.gov/... Fact Sheet.pdf

 

Now that the Council President knows this, perhaps the Council will follow the ancient advice: "When in a hole, stop digging."

 

Scouting is getting murdered on the Internet over this.

 

 

Then we have: "6. A Scout is a friend to animals.  He should save them as far as possible from pain."

 

As for Natures way - red in fang and claw - I have a friend who supports exposing politicians at birth - like naked on a rock in Winter, could we but determine which ones they are.


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#19 SSScout

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 04:53 PM

Tahawk:  I thought "Friendly " was #4 ? 


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#20 TAHAWK

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 09:36 PM

It is now.


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