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Got the phone call from camp....

camp homesick

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#21 JasonG172

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 02:46 PM

This is a failure of the other parents and the adult leaders in my opinion, not to mention the camp staff for allowing youth to charge devices. If you prohibit them for everyone then no one has them. 

 

In my troop no one calls home either. The adults take any home sick scout to the trading post for ice cream and we chat.

 

Electronics usage is an addiction for many of these kids (and adults). Cutting the chord for a week is not that hard if you apply it to everyone.

 

 

Yeap!  100% agree.  Since I didn't go with my "Chartered" Troop I found out via Text one scout was getting home sick and that his dad kept calling to check on him...he had his phone with him!  I immediately told the SM to take the young mans phone and talk to dad about it.  No phones no problems


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#22 krikkitbot

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 03:56 PM

Yeap!  100% agree.  Since I didn't go with my "Chartered" Troop I found out via Text one scout was getting home sick and that his dad kept calling to check on him...he had his phone with him!  I immediately told the SM to take the young mans phone and talk to dad about it.  No phones no problems

Found out via text?  ;)

 

We all use technology even when we go camping. Outings would be very different if we had to do things the way they do in Naked and Afraid. My boots have a nice Gore-Tex lining. My tent weighs a few pounds. My sleeping bag keeps me toasty in sub-zero temperatures. I have a camp chair that folds into the size of a small umbrella. Should we give all of these things up too?

 

Looking at how to tie a knot on an app is no different from carrying a book on how to tie knots. The knot is not going to tie itself. 

 

Here is the article that I read that made me change my mind. 


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#23 krikkitbot

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 04:06 PM

I apologize to all if I have threadjacked this topic. I'll gladly delete my comments if requested.

 

OP, I still hope that your son has a good time at camp regardless. 


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#24 MrBob

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 09:03 PM

 

 

Looking at how to tie a knot on an app is no different from carrying a book on how to tie knots. The knot is not going to tie itself. 

 

 

 

Why do you need to carry a (separate) book on how to tie knots?  Do you (k)not already know them?  There's only five: taut-line, timber, sheet-bend, bowline, clove.  I don't count the square knot or (two)half-hitch, because they should have learned that by heart as a Cub.


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#25 King Ding Dong

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 10:33 PM

The boys are allowed to bring the same electronic devices I do.  If it has to be plugged in for any reason it stays home.  It's a good lesson to learn that if one has the DT's by Tuesday or Wednesday, then there's something seriously wrong with one's life.  Yes, a bit of time with the game console can be relaxing for some, but so can drugs and alcohol or a morning cigarette and coffee.  Somehow I don't see the necessity to promote such addictive behavior nor should the leaders be leading in that direction.


I want to see you argue against this one. Scout has his technician class FCC license and wants to bring his ham radio. That is old school scouting. We even have an official Amature Radio Operator strip to wear on the sleeve now.

Everyone remember 300' Kudu? He had no problem with electronics. There is a video he posted here of his patrol hiking and all the boys had earbuds.
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#26 blw2

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 06:45 AM

Why do you need to carry a (separate) book on how to tie knots?  Do you (k)not already know them?  There's only five: taut-line, timber, sheet-bend, bowline, clove.  I don't count the square knot or (two)half-hitch, because they should have learned that by heart as a Cub.

well, perhaps a person wants to tie themselves a fancy paracord braided woggle in a new pattern they don't know.....

or, as I plan to do this weekend if I get some time (although not on a scout camp), I plan to make up some sort of paracord handle for my yeti low ball coffee mug.  Maybe I'll do a simple fishtailbraid, or perhaps a tripple spanish wrap.... I dunno.... but I figure I'll be looking online for muse and instruction.


Edited by blw2, 01 July 2016 - 06:45 AM.

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#27 Back Pack

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 07:13 AM

 

I still think we discount the concept that these kids, and many adults, are simply addicted to technology. Need to calm yourself at bed time? Read your handbook or another book. Bored? Talk to a friend or make a new one. Home sick? Involve yourself in the many activities that summer camp has to offer. Learn a new skill. Teach a new skill. If you were at STEM camp I could see turning a blind eye to technology, but this isn't the case. When kids are addicted to something they need help. Giving them their "fix" is not the answer. We are talking about 5 days without Minecraft, certainly that's not a problem, is it?


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#28 perdidochas

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 08:39 AM

Why do you need to carry a (separate) book on how to tie knots?  Do you (k)not already know them?  There's only five: taut-line, timber, sheet-bend, bowline, clove.  I don't count the square knot or (two)half-hitch, because they should have learned that by heart as a Cub.

If you are satisfied with those, that's fine.  However, some like to learn knots beyond the minimum. The books or apps are good for learning more esoteric knots. My oldest son is a knot guy. He learned to do the monkey's fist and other knots that aren't scout required.


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#29 Zaphod

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 08:49 AM

I apologize to all if I have threadjacked this topic. I'll gladly delete my comments if requested.

 

OP, I still hope that your son has a good time at camp regardless. 

 

It seems like every conversation turns controversial at some point, so by all means follow those rabbit trails!

 

Besides, I have not been here that long, but long enough to know mentioning tech use at camp would not be completely benign....


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#30 blw2

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 08:56 AM

I still think we discount the concept that these kids, and many adults, are simply addicted to technology. Need to calm yourself at bed time? Read your handbook or another book. Bored? Talk to a friend or make a new one. Home sick? Involve yourself in the many activities that summer camp has to offer. Learn a new skill. Teach a new skill. If you were at STEM camp I could see turning a blind eye to technology, but this isn't the case. When kids are addicted to something they need help. Giving them their "fix" is not the answer. We are talking about 5 days without Minecraft, certainly that's not a problem, is it?

I doubt if anyone here would argue directly against your points....

but as others have pointed out, that printed book you write about was once a new fangled and probably considered an unnecessary technology.  Perhaps looked on as evil even....

and bseides, you can now get most books in a digital format.  That is now the way many people consume the written word.... and there really isn't anything wrong with that.

 

To me the bigger point is to step back and honestly evaluate the "why" behind our opposition to a thing.

 

In this case, me thinks it's really more about a desire to get the attention focused on the outdoor world, and the people we are with.

so, perhaps the focus needs to be placed there, rather than on the "thing"

and as the articl that was linked to earlier points out, they aint going away!

 

People have probably thinking since the beginning, that things were better "back in my day".   But does that really make it so?  

No, I think it doesn't... just different.

Ugh, my kids will never learn the Dewey decimal system....

well, so what?

I'll bet at some point way back in time there were folks balking at this new waste of time they were teaching the kids in school, called the Dewey decimal system.....


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#31 Zaphod

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 09:05 AM

For those of you who asked I am hoping "no news is good news." We'll be picking him up tomorrow and I'll report back after I talk to him. 

 

As far as tech use... yes, he loves electronics no doubt about it. But we have been camping at least once a year as a family since he could toddle. Electronics are always verboten on those trips so it's not his first experience with withdrawal. My real reason for bringing it up is my boy has a really heightened sense of fairness (perhaps all 11 year olds do?). Of course he is going to learn that life is not fair in the cruel, hard world, but having that lesson at camp compounded the homesickness. BUT (big but time).... I don't have all the details and only spoke to him on the second day. It's very possible his Troop-mates started sharing and that his leaders gave him a little screen time or that he forgot all about it by the next morning. I have no idea. At least he go to call us on his leader's phone. 

 

That Bryan on Scouting article was excellent, BTW and I agree 100% that we can definitely incorporate tech wisely into outdoor activities. Also his take on using this as an opportunity to teach Scout Law as it pertains to electronics and social media is brilliant. I loved that. Thanks @krikkitbot for sharing that.


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#32 Zaphod

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 09:19 AM

Yesterday I was out kayaking by myself and saw a blue heron. I thought to myself, "Is that really a blue heron? Or is it a crane? How can I tell?" So I said, "Okay Google, what is the difference between a heron and a crane." Then Google told me and now I know. I think that made my outdoor experience better in the moment. 

 

On the other hand, I was paddling up a creek and got a text from my dad. It was not time sensitive but I took the time to reply anyway and dropped my paddle... NO just kidding! [Get it.... Up a creek without a.... okay sorry, bad joke, never mind]. But I did look up just in time to see a furry brown head disappear under the water. It was probably a muskrat, but maybe it was an otter. And if it was, I missed out because otters have become very rare in my neck of the woods. I wish I would have looked up sooner. So that was a lesson to me to put down the phone and be in the moment. 

 

Technology has it's uses but can definitely distract. I say let's mentor the boys and teach them exactly this sort of thing. 


Edited by Zaphod, 01 July 2016 - 09:19 AM.

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#33 krikkitbot

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 09:49 AM

Why do you need to carry a (separate) book on how to tie knots?  Do you (k)not already know them?  There's only five: taut-line, timber, sheet-bend, bowline, clove.  I don't count the square knot or (two)half-hitch, because they should have learned that by heart as a Cub.

 

You forgot:  Figure eight on a bight, Figure eight follow-through, Water knot, Double fisherman's knot (grapevine knot), Safety knot. All needed for the climbing merit badge. 

 

Arbor backing knot, nail knot, needle knot, nail knot, double surgeon’s loop or blood knot,improved clinch knot, Palomar, and turle. These are for the fishing and fly-fishing merit badges. 

 

You will also need to know the sheepshank (that one is for the scoutmaster to prove he is a scout and not an enemy spy ;) ), square lashing, diagonal lashing, shear lashing. These are for pioneering. 

 

Canoeing requires the trucker's hitch. 

 

You can learn how to tie all of these using the Grog Knots app or by going to animatedknots.com. They even have a scouting section.  :)


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#34 blw2

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 09:49 AM

one lesson to be learned that piggybacks on your furry critter story...(@Zaphod)

I read an article some time ago, or was it on some documentary I watched... anyway

it talked about how when a person is taking pictures they are not "in the moment" and will tend to remember much less about the experience.  An example of a parent taking photos or video of a child's school performance was used.

Upon reflection, and backed up by my observations since that time, I can say that this idea is spot on!

Many times it is much better to forget the pictures, and just "participate" in the moment.

A good lesson we could guide the scouts to discover....


Edited by blw2, 01 July 2016 - 09:50 AM.

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#35 Zaphod

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 10:30 AM

one lesson to be learned that piggybacks on your furry critter story...(@Zaphod)

I read an article some time ago, or was it on some documentary I watched... anyway

it talked about how when a person is taking pictures they are not "in the moment" and will tend to remember much less about the experience.  An example of a parent taking photos or video of a child's school performance was used.

Upon reflection, and backed up by my observations since that time, I can say that this idea is spot on!

Many times it is much better to forget the pictures, and just "participate" in the moment.

A good lesson we could guide the scouts to discover....

 

I agree with that! I am not really a picture/video person... other than taking close-ups of plants or wildlife I want to look up more about later. After I kayaked yesterday we took my 9 year old out on my dad's motorboat to teach him how to boogie board. He managed to get up on his knees the very first time and stayed on quite awhile! My dad wanted to film every second of it and since he was driving, I got stuck with the camera. For me, one picture is all it takes to remember the moment and then I can just watch and enjoy.... I can't imagine ever wanting to go back and watch that video! Unless he had fallen off spectacularly or something. But my parents do pore over those movies from my childhood and especially those of the grandkids, so I sigh and accommodate them. Maybe I will be thankful for them when I am old and the kids are spread out all over the country. 

 

But I have long regretted that my grandfathers passed away before passing on their knowledge of the outdoors to me (my father is not such a great teacher in that respect). I don't have any friends nearby into the outdoors so I am very thankful for the internet... and a phone that talks to me when I ask it questions (I don't even have to pick it up or look at it). But yes, it is tempting to lose focus and it can be a distraction, so everything in moderation, a time and a place, and all that. 

 

Speaking of... it's another lovely day and I need to put down this computer now that I am done with my work for the morning. Have a wonderful 4th of July weekend everyone!


Edited by Zaphod, 01 July 2016 - 10:33 AM.

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#36 Stosh

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 11:22 AM

Back when I was in confirmation, it was standard fare to MEMORIZE the entire Lutheran Small Catechism.  It was a horrendous job and painfully difficult, but we all needed to do it. 

 

My internship pastor had, over his lifetime, memorized all the Psalms including chapter and verse.

 

Boys struggling to get Scout Rank agonize over  the Oath and Laws (really? 12 words in a certain order?)

 

It is a practice that with the ever increasing use of modern electronic technology no longer is "needed"...... well until the battery dies then it may be a matter of life or death.  (I didn't coin the phrase "Death by GPS")

 

It's been 50 years and I can still recall major portions of the Lutheran Small Catechism.

 

I learned the importance of memorizing things from my internship pastor.

 

I know all the BSA knots and lashings, and I also know the Monkey Fist, the Turk's Head and the Truckers' Knot, use them all the time as a kayaker/canoeist.  I Diamond Hitch my kayaks when I use the trailer with no rack.

 

I know my different woods.  I can drive down the road and in late summer pick out 10 different plants along the way every mile.  I know my trees. 

 

I currently have 10 new plants identified so I can go find them out in the woods rather than finding them and then going to the books to figure out what they are.

 

Observation and Bird STUDY, Mammal STUDY, Nature STUDY, implies boning up this stuff BEFORE going out and enjoying.  Observing things, drawing them on paper, looking closely for small details all are a way of mentally memorizing something so that one can look it up and compare to reference books later.  That "ancient" BSA practice is a fantastic way of learning and memorizing items in nature without having to drag along a smartphone and charger.

 

I have a spot in my yard I leave to nature every year.  The first crop of wild flowers is dandelions.  Just a weed you say???  Ever have dandelion wine or dandelion jelly?  Nope, didn't think so.  Then the area turns to Ox-eye Daisies, followed by a blaze of Hawk Weed.  Now it is covered by Flea Bane and the Queen Anne's Lace and Yarrow and ready to bloom.  The Spider Wart is just finishing up near the edge of the forest and the May Apples and Jack-in-the-Pulpit are dying back.  Soon the mushrooms will be set along with the various ferns that line the nature trail I have in the back "40".

 

I don't carry a book and I don't carry a smartphone when I am in the yard or forest around the house.  I just do a lot of memorization.  It makes for a more enjoyable experience.

 

With the old storytelling oral histories of past civilizations and their vast knowledge of herbs, food sources and animals passed from one generation to the next would find hand-written books to be rather high-tech.

 

It's a shame we have lost that ability in today's culture.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#37 blw2

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 12:35 PM

Stosh

That certainly is a way to do things....

a very good way I might add.

but the thing is....it's not the only way.

It's not even the only good way.

 

You and I might not like it, but things, they are a changing.  Things evolve.  Sometimes aspects might get worse.  Sometimes they might get better... and others might just simply be only different... if we can let go of emotions and personal paradigms, step back and observe.


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#38 Back Pack

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 01:04 PM

I doubt if anyone here would argue directly against your points....

but as others have pointed out, that printed book you write about was once a new fangled and probably considered an unnecessary technology.  Perhaps looked on as evil even....

and bseides, you can now get most books in a digital format.  That is now the way many people consume the written word.... and there really isn't anything wrong with that.

 

To me the bigger point is to step back and honestly evaluate the "why" behind our opposition to a thing.

 

In this case, me thinks it's really more about a desire to get the attention focused on the outdoor world, and the people we are with.

so, perhaps the focus needs to be placed there, rather than on the "thing"

and as the articl that was linked to earlier points out, they aint going away!

 

The printed book meets opposition from adults for its use? Maybe in 1356 but not in the 20th or 21st century.

 

If someone is addicted to something you can point to all the cool stuff in the outdoors all you want to but they won't put that device away. If you are outside, be outside. 


Edited by Back Pack, 01 July 2016 - 01:05 PM.

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#39 krikkitbot

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 01:42 PM

The printed book meets opposition from adults for its use? Maybe in 1356 but not in the 20th or 21st century.

 

 

The date was Thirtieth of June, two thousand sixteen, in the year of Our Lord, by the Gregorian Calendar. It was a dark time for, alas, the youth were addicted to small magic boxes in their pockets while the adults debated on large magic boxes.  ;)

 

I'm referring to Mr. Bob's post from last night a few comments above. ^^^


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#40 Back Pack

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 02:52 PM

The date was Thirtieth of June, two thousand sixteen, in the year of Our Lord, by the Gregorian Calendar. It was a dark time for, alas, the youth were addicted to small magic boxes in their pockets while the adults debated on large magic boxes.  ;)

 

I'm referring to Mr. Bob's post from last night a few comments above. ^^^

 

Note he said "separate book". ;)


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