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Issues...CO or Council route?


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#1 King Ding Dong

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 09:43 AM

Over in the "Please Explain" thread we have a unfortunate situation that slipped through the cracks on this forum and now everyone is helping but the advise is all over the spectrum, big surprise. I thought it best to start a new topic rather than clutter up that thread, perhaps we can in the end provide a more unified approach for her.

We all know how how the hierarchy of scouting works and how this "should" be escalated. However each council is different and more importantly each CO is different with some actively engaged in the program to some who just tolerate scouting and are very hands off and will be extremely annoyed with being forced to deal with drama.

My old unit was public school based and chartered by the PTA that consisted of about 8 board members. When I accepted the position of Co-President I was surprised to find out the only person on the board who even knew the PTA was the CO was one of the past Co-Presidents. A couple of the board members expressed concerns about the PTA being the CO due the controversial BSA policies at the time. Some issues still remain. Fortunately my Co-President partner was a long time Scouter at the District/Council/National level and we were able to allay those concerns and continue on.

I doubt this situation is unique. Perhaps bringing this kind of drama to the CO could have a detrimental impact on the unit and it is best handled within scouting in many cases? My wife manages about 30 employees many of whom are high maintenance "creative" types. Her mantra is "Bring me solutions not problems."

Edited by King Ding Dong, 20 June 2016 - 09:56 AM.

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#2 John-in-KC

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 11:32 AM

This is why Commissioners exist.  If the Chartered Partner needs to learn about Scouting, ask the DE and the Commish covering the Partner to sit down with the IH and COR for a friendly cup of coffee someplace off-site.  Share Scouting's story.

 

One of two things will happen: 

- The CP will not make an issue of it.  Problem solved

- The CP decides to not renew the charter.  Then the DE finds a new partner.  Problem solved.

 

This is not difficult, and happens all the time around the Nation, for a myriad of reasons.


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#3 Beavah

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 02:05 PM

Yah, I think a lot of unit and even district volunteers don't really understand da relationships sometimes.  They think of da BSA like it's one big hierarchy, where folks in the units report to the district, and on up the chain.  They don't grok da CO thing.   Some of our partners (LDS, Catholics, Methodists, and other large partners) definitely do understand the relationship and use it well; other smaller partners (PTAs come to mind) really don't.  I expect a CO like @David CO 's school would be swift and sure in removin' the offending cubmaster. 

 

Where it gets weird is when yeh have Parents Of charters or PTAs like @King Ding Dong's.  They often don't understand their role / responsibility / liabilities.  Sometimes DEs keep 'em in the dark in order to get a unit up and runnin', though da charter and COR training are becomin' more and more explicit.

 

Problem is there really aren't (m)any mechanisms for council to intervene in the CO's backyard, eh?  Unit volunteers work for da CO, not the BSA.  It's da CO that hires and fires 'em, and it's the CO that's liable for their behavior.  Aside from things like accusations of sexual battery against a kid we're not removin' volunteers; even in those cases we would work in concert with da Chartered Organization.   If the fellow crosses the line in terms of a felony conviction, OK, but otherwise it's da CO's volunteer and da CO's show.

 

That's where da Commissioner Corps and sometimes a unit-serving DE come in as friends and advisors.  It's still a morass, because odds are neither really understands the actual unit dynamic, and like as not adult disputes in units have long histories and lots of he-said, she-said.

 

Beavah


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#4 David CO

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 01:12 AM

Council or Chartered Organization?

 

Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's.  Give unto God what is God's.


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#5 David CO

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 07:35 AM

King Ding Dong,

 

The relationship between BSA and the Chartered Organization has changed over the years.  Not for the better, in my opinion.  Nowhere is this more clearly evident than at council.

 

There has always been a line drawn between BSA and CO's.  At one time, I would have said that this line lies somewhere between region and council.  BSA owns region.  The CO's collectively own the council.

 

This is why, I think, we used to call ourselves "partners" rather than Chartered Organizations.  We were never "partners" with BSA.  We were "partners" on the council with our fellow CO's.

 

Today, almost everyone would agree that BSA runs the council.  The line has BSA, region, and council on one side.  Chartered Organizations are alone on the other side.

 

Taking the council away from the Chartered Organizations has weakened the CO's, both individually and collectively.  What you describe is not at all unusual, a weakened CO which has thrown up its arms in frustration and given up.   


Edited by David CO, 21 June 2016 - 08:16 AM.

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#6 King Ding Dong

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 10:19 AM

@David CO

I can certainly see your point on most of that but as a public school the resistence to scouting comes from the fact that the program is not open to ALL of the CO's boys.
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#7 David CO

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 08:43 PM

@David CO

I can certainly see your point on most of that but as a public school the resistence to scouting comes from the fact that the program is not open to ALL of the CO's boys.

 

True.  But the resistance to scouting in parochial schools comes from the fact that the program is becoming open to more people. 

 

We can't weaken our CO's.  We can't keep exchanging solid, stable CO's for flimsy, fly-by-night, one-purpose groups.  We can't grow scouting that way.

 

Sure, John-in-KC is right.  A DE can always form a "friends-of" or find an "in-name-only" CO.  That's easy.  They do it all the time.

 

But if you really want to grow scouting, you need to develop relationships with strong, solid CO's with the talent and resources to do the job.


Edited by David CO, 21 June 2016 - 09:07 PM.

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#8 King Ding Dong

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 10:52 PM

Ah, but YOUR program is not becoming more open, unless you choose to do so.
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#9 qwazse

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 09:46 AM

Ah, but YOUR program is not becoming more open, unless you choose to do so.

But, that's where we're trying to put the cart before the horse.

The COs in a particular district should see themselves as partners trying to serve youth in their respective communities. Only they can draw the lines that define their communities.

 

We are not in a position to tell David's school if their catch-man area for scouting needs to be more or less broad. But neighboring COs should be getting together (maybe with a DE/DC providing survey info) to decide if collectively they are covering the needs of all of the youth who could benefit from scouting. Then they have a moderated discussion about if one or the other CO should broaden their reach, or -- lacking an existing CO who can do that -- discuss about other community groups who should be offered the privilege of sponsoring a unit.


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#10 David CO

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 11:02 AM

Exactly right.  If one individual unit could meet the needs of every boy, then what need would there be for districts?


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