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boy scouting advancement

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#121 Tampa Turtle

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 02:02 PM

Most patrols seem to work i out once they get their hearts right. Boys learn what is kosher and not. With allergies what things cannot touch certain foods and which the offended scout can just pick out. Usually reasonable compromises and accommodations are made. The biggest problem I have seem is the boy who can't eat the patrol food and his parents raise hell about it while the solution is 3 bags of Doritos for the weekend.


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#122 Krampus

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 02:06 PM

Most patrols seem to work i out once they get their hearts right. Boys learn what is kosher and not. With allergies what things cannot touch certain foods and which the offended scout can just pick out. Usually reasonable compromises and accommodations are made. The biggest problem I have seem is the boy who can't eat the patrol food and his parents raise hell about it while the solution is 3 bags of Doritos for the weekend.

 

We have a Scout like that too. Not allergic, just has "issues" with certain foods. We asked the parents to supply a list of approved foods, also requested the Scout advocate on his own behalf during meal planning.

 

The patrol is very good about accommodating him. Parents still yet to supply that list. One would think with the amount of complaining they do they would have given the list on Day 1. ;)


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#123 Stosh

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 02:06 PM

Most patrols seem to work i out once they get their hearts right. Boys learn what is kosher and not. With allergies what things cannot touch certain foods and which the offended scout can just pick out. Usually reasonable compromises and accommodations are made. The biggest problem I have seem is the boy who can't eat the patrol food and his parents raise hell about it while the solution is 3 bags of Doritos for the weekend.

 

My finicky boys brought in 4 big containers of Goldfish for summer camp.  :)


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#124 Hedgehog

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 03:21 PM

I do not have any problem with the boys doing what they want to do as a patrol.  The problem arises in what the adults dictate as to what they can and cannot do.  If the leader of the patrol is taking care of his boys, what business is it of the adults to interfere with extra rules, regulations and mandates.

 

Okay, the boys are having a Dutch oven broccoli bake for supper.  No bacon involved at all.  :(  Okay one of the boys REEEALY hates broccoli so he makes himself a PBJ.  Does that condemn him as not being a team player?  He is rebelling against the authority of his PL?  Is he not loyal to his buddies?  Is his not learning anything about how the patrol method works?  Let's put it this way, why are the adults stepping in or even hovering over these kinds of petty issues and declaring them anti-patrol method?

 

It's been my experience that a lot of dynamics that move small groups beyond their comfort zone is an occasional anomaly that offers an alternative or improvement over what is currently being done.  Yes, the boys all eat the same food, clean up the same with the three bucket wash system as has been taught.... except at Philmont when all things change.  Gee, they don't have Dutch ovens at Philmont or on the AT.  What now?  The boys have all been taught to cook for a group of 6-8 boys, but they don't know how to effectively feed just themselves.

 

This line of thinking on the part of the adults is limiting to the patrols and what works for them.  Like people, no two patrols have the same personality, the lessons cannot be "one-size-fits-all".  The policy of: "If one doesn't like what's being served, there's PBJ in the chuck box."  Standard operating procedure for every patrol in the country, except the patrol where one of it's members is deadly allergic to peanuts.  He doesn't like broccoli and he's allergic to peanuts, now the poor kid has doubled down on his inability to be a team player in the patrol.  Time for a SMC!

 

If one is going to expect the PL to take care of his boys, then get out of the way and let him do it and do it HIS way, not what some adult says has to happen. 

 

@Hedgehog, I think it boils down to something far more destructive than the boys not following the patrol method rules, or wearing the uniform, or ignoring the safety of the Totin' Chip as adult nonsense.  What it really means that these boys have been taught the correct protocol and yet up until they turn 18 years of age they cannot be trusted with what they have been taught.  A PL who is taking care of his boys will make sure there is no peanut butter in the chuck box if he has a boys that's allergic to it.  He will make sure the safety rules of the Totin' Chip are followed, etc.  He DOESN"T need an adult hovering over his shoulder 24/7 making sure all the i's are dotted and t's crossed when it comes to scouting and troop rules. 

 

If the patrol method is to work, the boys have to be trustworthy.  How does one know if a boy can be trusted if they are all held on a very short leash?  All boys are trustworthy if an adult is hovering 2' away.

 

 

So in our Troop the only adult dictates regarding cooking are that: 1) you need to cook and eat as a patrol; 2) there needs to be some "cooking" (except for lunch) and 3) the boy leaders "take care of their boys."  The boys discuss the menu and the boy leaders make sure that everyone has enough to eat taking into account preferences, religious prohibitions and allergies.  The result is the boys make sure there is enough for the vegetarians to eat, there is an alternative for those allergic to gluten and the rest of the boys like what is cooked (including one boy taking his pasta before the motzarella cheese is put on).  They understand helpful, courteous and servant leadership.  There is no necessity for any boy to go off on their own and cook something different.  Do you consider this to be adults dictating unnecessary rules, regulations and mandates?  If so, what would you do differently?

 

As for effectively feeding themselves, our boys learn that while backpacking.  None of them are dumb enough to bring a dutch oven backpacking and they cook individually or in self selected groups of 2 or 3.  They also learn to cook at home during the cooking merit badge. 

 

What in my post indicates that we don't trust the boys to follow the above instructions?  Our guys do really well in planning the menus and taking care of your boys.  Also, where did I mention an adult hovering over the patrol.

 

Finally, @Stosh, what would you do in this situation?  The boys had a luncheon in a hotel with a speaker as part of an urban hike in D.C.  A couple of older boys packed up extra food to take with them because "that way we won't have to help with cooking or the clean-up for dinner."  What would you do or say?


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#125 David CO

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 04:25 PM

It is not at all unusual for my unit to have adult dictates regarding meals.  Some of these dictates are standing policies etched in stone, such as fasting during lent, and some are one time events, like a troop pig roast.

 

So, we are not 100% boy lead.  


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#126 Stosh

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 05:00 PM

So in our Troop the only adult dictates regarding cooking are that: 1) you need to cook and eat as a patrol;

 

No problem

 

2) there needs to be some "cooking" (except for lunch)

 

Depends on the intent of the activity.  If they are doing a shake down for Philmont, I'm not going to say anything if they wash down uncooked oatmeal on the march and an energy bar for breakfast.  :)  Otherwise sounds good.  I've eat a lot of cold cereal in the morning and lived to be 65 and am healthy.  If they want to skip the bacon and eggs, I wouldn't complain.  However, if the cooking is for rank advancement, those rules take precedent over any opinions I may have.

 

and 3) the boy leaders "take care of their boys."  

 

Or better put all the boys take care of each other.  In one way or another they are all leaders or working on being one.

 

The boys discuss the menu and bring in their own recipes from home of what they like and the boy leaders (PL/GM) make sure that everyone has enough to eat taking into account preferences, religious prohibitions and allergies.  The result is the boys (PL/GM) make sure there is enough for the vegetarians to eat, there is an alternative for those allergic to gluten and the rest of the boys like what is cooked (including one boy taking his pasta before the motzarella cheese is put on).  They understand helpful, courteous and servant leadership.  There is no necessity for any boy to go off on their own and cook something different.  Do you consider this to be adults dictating unnecessary rules, regulations and mandates?  If so, what would you do differently?

 

Other than a couple of minor comments, this is exactly what my boys do.

 

As for effectively feeding themselves, our boys learn that while backpacking.  None of them are dumb enough to bring a dutch oven backpacking and they cook individually or in self selected groups of 2 or 3.  They also learn to cook at home during the cooking merit badge. 

 

What in my post indicates that we don't trust the boys to follow the above instructions?  Our guys do really well in planning the menus and taking care of your boys.  Also, where did I mention an adult hovering over the patrol.

 

Finally, @Stosh, what would you do in this situation?  The boys had a luncheon in a hotel with a speaker as part of an urban hike in D.C.  A couple of older boys packed up extra food to take with them because "that way we won't have to help with cooking or the clean-up for dinner."  What would you do or say?

 

It would seem that my reference to you in my post meant the whole post was aimed as a negative judgment against you.  It wasn't I only mentioned you in the post as one of those that wasn't a problem  My apologies for the misunderstanding.  I couldn't figure out where you were going with your post until I realize how it was misunderstood. 

 

As far as the last tag scenario at the end.  I might ask the PL if there was "anything I could do to help" with his boy's not  figuring out the teamwork leadership necessary to run smoothly in the patrol.  I would expect he would say he had it handled and noticed the issue too.  That would be the end of the conversation unless the PL brought it up again.  Otherwise if one of the patrol members had a non-patrol luncheon he attended, I would assume the PL excused him from the meal to attend to the business at hand.   I wouldn't say anything.

 

 


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#127 Hedgehog

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 07:28 PM

Finally, @Stosh, what would you do in this situation?  The boys had a luncheon in a hotel with a speaker as part of an urban hike in D.C.  A couple of older boys packed up extra food to take with them because "that way we won't have to help with cooking or the clean-up for dinner."  What would you do or say?


 

It would seem that my reference to you in my post meant the whole post was aimed as a negative judgment against you.  It wasn't I only mentioned you in the post as one of those that wasn't a problem  My apologies for the misunderstanding.  I couldn't figure out where you were going with your post until I realize how it was misunderstood. 

 

As far as the last tag scenario at the end.  I might ask the PL if there was "anything I could do to help" with his boy's not  figuring out the teamwork leadership necessary to run smoothly in the patrol.  I would expect he would say he had it handled and noticed the issue too.  That would be the end of the conversation unless the PL brought it up again.  Otherwise if one of the patrol members had a non-patrol luncheon he attended, I would assume the PL excused him from the meal to attend to the business at hand.   I wouldn't say anything.

 

 

 

@Stosh, I did misunderstand.  It seemed to me that you were challenging a requirement that patols cook and eat as patrols as being an unnecessary adult rule.  In your response, we seem to be agreeing.  We don't cook as patrol's on backpacking trips because it is too difficult with the backpacking stoves to cook for more than two or three people.  When we do plop camping, the boys are required to cook and eat as patrols.  The younger boys serve as grubmasters to fulfill the advancement requirements.  The patrols craft the menu together and the patrol leaders make sure that everyone is taken care of (with no adult intervention).  

 

As for my scenario - I didn't explain it well.  The patrols all had a luncheon buffet with a speaker.  A couple of older boys took extra food with them when they left (with permission) to have for dinner so they didn't have to cook or clean-up with their patrols.  My solution was to remind them that as leaders their job is to help the boys in their patrol and that while I didn't care what they ate for dinner, I expected them to make sure their patrol members were all taken care of.


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