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Have had just about enough!


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#21 Oldscout448

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 07:51 PM

Would have counted it an honor and privilege to have been there as well. We memorized all but vigil as well, as none but chapter chiefs were awarded that distinction in our neck of the woods

Edited by Oldscout448, 09 April 2016 - 07:53 PM.

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#22 jpstodwftexas

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 11:39 PM

my lodge has never had chapters


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#23 JosephMD

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 07:39 AM

Wow, the internet is small.  I am the chapter adviser for the chapter that cancelled. (is that word spelled with one L or two?  I can never remember and they both spell check)

@Oldscout448 and I had a conversation later

 

I'm zealous for letting the youth run their organization, and the chief made the call to cancel.  Not a call I agreed with, but it was made.

 

Communication was difficult, as, I was camping with my unit that day, as was the chief.  The sad thing was that we were just on the other side of the property where the call out was happening. 

 

Lets go back.  My assessment is that the problem originated several weeks earlier at an ordeal planning meeting.  Chief & Ceremonies chief weren't there, and when the idea was floated by the other chapter, I may have over stepped and volunteered them.  Even though they got on board, I'm not sure the chapter leadership as a whole really were, but some times, even when trying to let them run it, as adults we can be overly suggestive. 

 

A few days before, there was an e-mail exchange, yeah yeah, email exchange always leads to something bad, but, the chief had suggested cancelling, my response was something like, you should work that out with the other chapter.  I think the chief's understanding was that he had cancelled, but it went no further.

 

On the day, I was camping with my son's unit as they needed a second adult.  I wondered down the trail and to my surprise, the chief was camping with his unit.  I had the conversation with him, is the call out cancelled?  His response, yes.  I was not really in a position to get the word out, so I called an associate adviser to help which ended up being an e-mail a couple of hours before saying it was cancelled. 

 

My son, is on the team, so I was able to get the word to him, the chief is on the team, so, obviously he was aware.  What they didn't know was that it was still happening.  I'd bet a paycheck that they'd have run right over if they were aware of the difficulties just a couple hundred yards down the trail.

 

So, why this scheduling failure?  Well, usually, at least for as long as I could remember, there would be a district camporee that weekend in march, and many units have that weekend blocked in their calendar for camping.  The district camporee was moved to April, one week before the ordeal, which, made having a surprise call out kind of difficult.

 

Some more history, the two chapters were once one, and we still have joint ordeals and have worked together on other things, so, it is not like we are strangers.

 

What I have taken away:

 

I should start referring commitments to the chief or his designee for that program and be careful not to make it seem like I am volunteering the chapter for something.  I should stop assuming that I am on the same page as my chief and follow up when things are not crystal clear.  And I should continue to work with the other advisers and make sure that decisions having impact to other chapters, area, lodge, or even other program areas within the chapter are communicated and received.

 

I'm happy to say that the chapter ceremonies chief changed his mind and accepted the role again for another year!  After that incident, I think some lessons were learned and the team seemed to shake off that loss, regroup, put on a great call out at the camporee and continued to work well together through the ceremonies at our spring ordeal a few weeks ago!

 

@Oldscout448 - I'm not sure I can thank you enough for your dedication to the chapter's ceremonies team and beyond.

 

@hendrickms24 - I look forward to working with you as my counterpart from the other side of the county (you know where I live now!)


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#24 sst3rd

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 08:29 PM

For years, our lodge has had a difficult time staffing Call-Out ceremony teams for our summer camp Friday night closing campfires. Summer camp staff would appoint someone to head up the ceremony using old half baked ceremony outfits, practice a short ceremony, and then perform a really lousy Call-Out in front of the whole camp. Last year,our lodge tried to bring back an old tradition of having each chapter ceremony team perform a Call-Out each Friday night at summer camp. We weren't asked. We were told. And very short notice was given. The lodge wanted us to use their ceremony and outfits, but all they had were shirts. As current chapter ceremony committee advisor, I advised our team to stay away from this "invitation", but was told by our chapter advisor to please give it a go. I had our chapter ceremony chief to pick a Friday to perform, set up practices, and recruit. They chose the first week of summer camp to perform. They did a great job, and I was extremely proud of their efforts and told them so (as I was their that Friday night to support them). The next five weeks, I was told by a summer camp staffer I trust, the Call-Out ceremonies were bad. The other chapter teams didn't have the ceremony memorized, and were reading it from the back of shields with flashlights.

 

I was told that the lodge doesn't want to risk problems this coming year, and simply wants the chapters to give them our ceremony team members. They will train them, practice them, and outfit them (I don't know with what). They will mold them into what they want.

 

You may be asking, where is the lodge ceremony team???? They only perform at the service (ordeal) weekends, conclaves, and special events. The lodge can't seem to get any of them out to summer camp on Fridays. So, the chapters have to pick up the slack. I talked to our chapter team about the change for this upcoming year, and they weren't interested. They wanted our chapter team to do what they did the year before and not be under the lodges control. We did a great job last year. Great outfits, flute music, drums, torches; maybe we had set the bar too high for the other chapter teams, but we don't know. We simply did our best. And yes, I include myself in this, as I didn't have to get involved. The scouts wanted me to support them and I did. Wonder what the lodge will do?

 

 So, how does your summer camp organize its camp OA Call-Out ceremonies. Do you have the summer camp staff perform, lodge team perform, or maybe chapter teams perform? Just asking.

 

sst3rd


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#25 JosephMD

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 08:10 AM

I was told that the lodge doesn't want to risk problems this coming year, and simply wants the chapters to give them our ceremony team members. They will train them, practice them, and outfit them (I don't know with what). They will mold them into what they want.

 

 So, how does your summer camp organize its camp OA Call-Out ceremonies. Do you have the summer camp staff perform, lodge team perform, or maybe chapter teams perform? Just asking.

 

sst3rd

 

I don't think our lodge does OA Call-Out ceremonies at summer camp.  They are generally done at district spring camporees or district campfires, by chapter ceremonies teams.

 

Different chapters will have different levels of involvement, and it will come and go depending on the chapter.  I think it was good for your team to do this job for your lodge if they wanted to do it.  The lodge can't force them to.  If they want to do it again, they should work with the lodge to figure out a solution that works for everyone.  It seems that the lodge really wants a quality ceremony and they didn't get that last year.  Someone probably thought that the way to fix it was to have a one size fits all top down solution under strict supervision.  That could work, but it isn't the only way.  Perhaps your team can take them up on their offer, but as a team, not as individuals, and show the lodge committee running this what they can do and how they'll do it, maybe even take a few suggestions form the lodge on elements they would like to see included or done a certain way.  If all goes well, request the date when your chapter has the most district units at camp.  One thing to consider ... your team may be asked to train other teams, perform multiple dates, and / or run the committee next year! 


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#26 Krampus

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 08:33 AM

 So, how does your summer camp organize its camp OA Call-Out ceremonies. Do you have the summer camp staff perform, lodge team perform, or maybe chapter teams perform? Just asking.

 

 

District has a ceremonial team. They are ok. The process they use for call outs --  done at spring camporee -- takes forever....over two hours!!! 

 

Out unit has done what my cousin's unit has done. We formed our own ceremonial team. We do our own tap out. We then send our guys to the chapter ordeal.

 

Last camporee, not a single one of our guys wanted to get tapped out by the district folks. They had already had the unit ceremony which they said was more important to them.


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#27 Stosh

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 10:54 AM

No up to code on this, but why can't the OA Rep "tap out" the boys in the troop and send them off for ordeal?


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#28 Krampus

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 11:34 AM

No up to code on this, but why can't the OA Rep "tap out" the boys in the troop and send them off for ordeal?

 

I don't know that he can't. We just put together our own ceremonial unit for tap outs because the guys wanted to do it. They were tired of going to camporee (saw it as a waste of time for a long time) and simply wanted to offer this service. They also do crossovers.

 

As far as I know you only need to be elected to attend ordeal. Tap out is not required...at least where I live.


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#29 sst3rd

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 02:03 PM

JosephMD,

 

    Good points all. Our summer camp has a staff position that deals with all camp OA stuff. It's usually an older scout in high school or moving on to college. There's an adult staff position that advises him. Both of these people last year had power trips. Their way or the highway with complete control. But no chapter ceremony teams wanted to work under those conditions, so nobody volunteered. Begrudgingly, 5 chapter teams gave it a go. We were the first up, and evidently did a great job. The others, not so much. As I mentioned before, all members of the lodge ceremony team were no shows. I know it's a long way off, but none of the chapters are interested this year either, and since the lodge wants individuals from chapter ceremony teams, well good luck with that.

 

Krampus,

 

 Our district has quite a few units that have their own ceremony teams for their own call-outs, crossovers, and AOL ceremonies. Our chapter keeps its team ready for those troops and packs that aren't so fortunate.

.

 

sst3rd


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#30 Krampus

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 02:10 PM

 

Krampus,

 

 Our district has quite a few units that have their own ceremony teams for their own call-outs, crossovers, and AOL ceremonies. Our chapter keeps its team ready for those troops and packs that aren't so fortunate.

 

Interesting. Apparently in my neck of the woods it is considered heresy. ;)

 

We don't care, we keep doing it and the packs like it, as does our unit. If there's no rule against it we will keep doing it.


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