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YPT ... you can't have just one

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#1 qwazse

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 09:07 PM

So, finally got my DE to find out why my crew's roster got pulled ...

Turns out my 18 year-old's only had Boy Scout YP (since they were serving as ASMs) and they needed Venturing YP.

And even more drop from the charter ....
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#2 Stosh

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 09:32 PM

So 18 year old crew members have to have YPT to stay on the crew roster?


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#3 qwazse

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 10:24 PM

Not Just any YPT. It's gotta be Venturing YPT!
They also have to complete BSA adult application. But I've skated by with one app if the boy is also serving in a troop.
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#4 Krampus

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 07:21 AM

Not Just any YPT. It's gotta be Venturing YPT!
They also have to complete BSA adult application. But I've skated by with one app if the boy is also serving in a troop.

I've always wondered about that since we don't have a crew, but only a troop. When our boys turn 18 and want to stick around, we complete an adult application and have them completed YPT. That's enough for the BSA. We introduce them to the boys as "Mr. (x)" and walk them through the adult's role in Boy Scouts.

 

@qwazse, so in a crew, even though it runs through 21 people 18 or over need an adult application and adult Venture YPT?


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#5 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 07:42 AM

Yes. Venturers  and Venturing Leaders need both the standard YPT that Cub and Boy Scout leaders take, as well as the Venturing YPT.

 

And the Venturers over 18 needing adult app and YPT started a few years back with the original membership standards change.( 2013 or 2014).


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#6 NJCubScouter

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 08:57 AM

Yes. Venturers  and Venturing Leaders need both the standard YPT that Cub and Boy Scout leaders take, as well as the Venturing YPT.

 

And the Venturers over 18 needing adult app and YPT started a few years back with the original membership standards change.( 2013 or 2014).

A couple of places on the Internet say that change was effective March 1, 2015.  It does seem longer ago than that.  It was probably announced in 2014 but was effective in 2015.  It was a result of the change in membership standards for youth, but was not simultaneous with it.  I don't think the BSA ever officially said that that was the motivation for applying "adult" requirements to Venturing youth, but everybody knew it was.

 

On another note, our troop just found out the hard way about dropping charters for lack of YPT.  Apparently one of our "key 3" did not get around to taking it before the charter went in, and as a result our troop is not chartered as of March 1.  Hopefully that was cleared up this week but I do not know for sure yet.


Edited by NJCubScouter, 10 March 2016 - 11:17 AM.

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#7 qwazse

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 09:15 AM

I've always wondered about that since we don't have a crew, but only a troop. When our boys turn 18 and want to stick around, we complete an adult application and have them completed YPT. That's enough for the BSA. We introduce them to the boys as "Mr. (x)" and walk them through the adult's role in Boy Scouts.

 

@qwazse, so in a crew, even though it runs through 21 people 18 or over need an adult application and adult Venture YPT?

 

As NJ, points out, this is a new rule for venturing participants as of last year. As a result 3/4 of my young adults in the crew concluded it was not worth the trouble. They can just hike and camp with young adults and whatever high school friends they choose without price of registration and be as many miles down the trail in the time they've taken the online training. The lawyering world is so out of touch with our youth that it's decimating us.

 

Yes. Venturers  and Venturing Leaders need both the standard YPT that Cub and Boy Scout leaders take, as well as the Venturing YPT.

 

And the Venturers over 18 needing adult app and YPT started a few years back with the original membership standards change.( 2013 or 2014).

 

E94, while I was ASM and Advisor I took either training every two years and let the other one lapse. I told the DE that's what I did and said "Make it work or I'm out." I actually didn't transfer myself or Son #2 to our new troop's roster to save them this hassle (among others). Likewise I employ SMs/ASMs on crew activities without requiring them to be venturing trained because I want their heads in the game with material that might actually forestall death. If they took boy scout YPT, they'll do just fine in my crew.

 

Son #2 took the time for BSA YPT to ASM for me last year, took time out of his schedule for our church's YPT the week before last. ...  What do you think he'll say to venturing YPT when he extracts from the spring break wilderness trip with his college fellowship?

 

I'm asking the DE for a waiver.


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#8 Krampus

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 09:22 AM

 

On another note, our troop just found the hard way about dropping charters for lack of YPT.  Apparently one of our "key 3" did not get around to taking it before the charter went in, and as a result our troop is not chartered as of March 1.  Hopefully that was cleared up this week but I do not know for sure yet.

 

We have a training person who checks YPT and other training quarterly. They proactively send out reminders when people on the charter are 30-60 days prior to expiration. Anyone who lapses cannot attend ANY troop event until they re-certify. This has helped us keep folks up-to-date. Anyone without a current YPT does not get re-chartered. Council requires our YPT for anyone being re-chartered to be valid for 60 days post-charter submission (Jan 1st). This practice has avoided submitting anyone without a current YPT.

 

Maybe that will help.


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#9 T2Eagle

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 09:53 AM

I'm not the biggest fan of BSA training, but there are orders of magnitude of difference between say IOLS and YPT.  You can complete YPT online, either Venturing or Boy Scout, in half an hour --- probably less time than any of us spend reading or posting on here in any given week.  And you can easily do it at the same time you're doing something useful like watching college basketball 


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#10 Krampus

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 10:09 AM

I'm not the biggest fan of BSA training, but there are orders of magnitude of difference between say IOLS and YPT.  You can complete YPT online, either Venturing or Boy Scout, in half an hour --- probably less time than any of us spend reading or posting on here in any given week.  And you can easily do it at the same time you're doing something useful like watching college basketball 

 

Same could be said for Wood Badge.  :eek:  :cool:


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#11 qwazse

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 10:15 AM

I'm not the biggest fan of BSA training, but there are orders of magnitude of difference between say IOLS and YPT.  You can complete YPT online, either Venturing or Boy Scout, in half an hour --- probably less time than any of us spend reading or posting on here in any given week.  And you can easily do it at the same time you're doing something useful like watching college basketball 

I know how long it takes me to do it. And it takes me twice as long to coach someone else to do it, which I usually have to do for a couple of adults. All of a sudden, I'm missing a playoff game. So, now let's pretend I have venturers willing to do this AFTER THEY'VE ALREADY MISSED THE FIRST HALF OF THE GAME DOING BOY SCOUT YPT TRAINING. It's a non-starter.

 

In reality, there's no trading between YPT-redux and a b-ball game. The trade is between taking redundant training or making a few phone calls to grab some tarps, pull some steaks out of the freezer and meet in the woods, or on the shooting range, or lining up a climbing or whitewater guide.


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#12 Krampus

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 10:17 AM

@qwazse, if you have to coach adults on how to take YPT, I'd suggest you have a bigger issue. ;)


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#13 NJCubScouter

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 11:22 AM

I do not see why anyone would have a problem spending 30 minutes renewing their YPT, but the number of people (regardless of age) who find it difficult to find that half hour is distressingly large.  On the other hand I am not a representative sampling; I was a facilitator for YPT on the district level before everybody started doing it online.


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#14 qwazse

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 03:24 PM

I do not see why anyone would have a problem spending 30 minutes renewing their YPT, but the number of people (regardless of age) who find it difficult to find that half hour is distressingly large.  On the other hand I am not a representative sampling; I was a facilitator for YPT on the district level before everybody started doing it online.

You know the interesting things about YP trainers? They resulted in the course taking triple the time, but for that nominal fee of $5 ...

  • They brought cookies and coffee.
  • You got out of the house and away from that screen.
  • They looked to see how many packs, troops, and crews were represented and tailored their presentation accordingly.
  • They inserted little facts about known incidents (the former camp director had some great ones)!
  • They did not ask you to take the course again just because you were in two different positions.

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#15 qwazse

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 03:30 PM

@qwazse, if you have to coach adults on how to take YPT, I'd suggest you have a bigger issue. ;)

Yes, I have bigger issues. But you're not the folks to fix those. :ph34r:

 

I'm hoping that, however this plays out in my crew, others might be better prepared to handle it as their dual-registered youth turn 18.


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#16 Krampus

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 04:12 PM

Yes, I have bigger issues. But you're not the folks to fix those. :ph34r:

 

I'm hoping that, however this plays out in my crew, others might be better prepared to handle it as their dual-registered youth turn 18.

 

I hear you.

 

We had a Scout turn 18 in January. He completed his Eagle stuff in December and it was submitted to national. We asked district and council if he should charter as a youth or adult; thinking that if we charter him as an adult it might somehow screw up the near-perfect BSA computer system and deny him his Eagle. Both district and council said (in writing) to charter as a youth.

 

[insert buzzer sound]

 

Wrong! He got spit back as being an untrained adult and we needed to register him as an adult. We contacted national to confirm and even contracted the Eagle review board to confirm. The confirmed (in writing), so we registered him as an adult so the charter could go through and he could continue through the Eagle process.

 

[insert buzzer sound]
 
Wrong again! When we contacted the review board to check why we hadn't heard about the status of this scout, we were told that he's ineligible since he's now an adult.  :mad:
 
A few phone calls and several forwarded emails later (the emails we had the review board send to confirm our course of action in this matter), the review board expedited his application and he became Eagle.
 
Epilogue: You'd think the BSA system would find a way to flag applications in process and save them from being locked out like that. It's a simple piece of code which I'd be happy to write and send to BSA.  :cool:

Edited by Krampus, 10 March 2016 - 04:13 PM.

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#17 desertrat77

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 04:34 PM

I finished both in about an hour last December, while watching a football game.   Easy.


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#18 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 08:08 PM

I admit, I hate doing YPT.  After doing it for registration multiple times, doing it again multiple times to work the various camps, even if YPT was current, because we needed to get the camp version, with extra stuff, even if I taught the camp version with the extra stuff and did it as training chair, I need to keep on doing it.

 

I wish in my case, it was only once every 2 years. :(


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#19 TAHAWK

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 12:22 AM

Same could be said for Wood Badge.  :eek:  :cool:

Exaggerate much?   :D


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#20 TAHAWK

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 12:31 AM

 

I hear you.

 

We had a Scout turn 18 in January. He completed his Eagle stuff in December and it was submitted to national. We asked district and council if he should charter as a youth or adult; thinking that if we charter him as an adult it might somehow screw up the near-perfect BSA computer system and deny him his Eagle. Both district and council said (in writing) to charter as a youth.

 

[insert buzzer sound]

 

Wrong! He got spit back as being an untrained adult and we needed to register him as an adult. We contacted national to confirm and even contracted the Eagle review board to confirm. The confirmed (in writing), so we registered him as an adult so the charter could go through and he could continue through the Eagle process.

 

[insert buzzer sound]
 
Wrong again! When we contacted the review board to check why we hadn't heard about the status of this scout, we were told that he's ineligible since he's now an adult.  :mad:
 
A few phone calls and several forwarded emails later (the emails we had the review board send to confirm our course of action in this matter), the review board expedited his application and he became Eagle.
 
Epilogue: You'd think the BSA system would find a way to flag applications in process and save them from being locked out like that. It's a simple piece of code which I'd be happy to write and send to BSA.  :cool:

 

 

The BSA system uses volunteers - mere humans who can and do make mistakes despite their training.   (We just had a B of R "postponed" when the candidate showed up in "old" (pre-2010 I think) trousers and a brand new shirt. ("Out of uniform").  Turns out the chair of the board had personal ideas that he felt trumped National "guidance" on B of Rs.  


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