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Which Shoulder Loops?


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#21 blw2

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 01:07 PM

:)

 

This gentleman was one of my Eagle scouts.  The uniform he is wearing is the same one he did his Eagle project in.  It's the same uniform he wore every week to meetings.  As you can tell from the insignia and Eagle knot he was at the time my ASM.  He went and got appropriate 1960's ASM patch when he aged out.  He had a difficult time, but he did find the community strip, too.

 

Any historic uniform is a valid BSA uniform, but one must make sure the insignia is historic as well.
 

It's the tent I notice more in this shot....I can almost smell that old canvas!

 

And this latter point is the problem I've run into with historic uniforming. I don't want to slap a modern CSP on an old uniform because it will look silly. Does anyone know if there's any place out there that manufactures repro community strips? I've been able to find vintage square knots, positions patches, etc., but the community strips are much more difficult. I've been able to find one for the city out of which our council is based (and of which my small city is a 'burb), and that may be the best I'm able to do unless I can find someone out there reproducing them.

I spent a little time looking a couple years back, and had little luck.  I did find a site that had some, but as I recall it was mostly the more modern council shoulder patches.  Sorry, I don't recall the site though.

 

I had a canvas briefcase type bag taht I used to take misc stuff to each meeting.  I wanted to sew some of my old scout patches on.  thought it might be a conversation starter.

I had a few old patches taht my mom had saved for me (I had no idea she had them till my son started cubs)  Anyway, she didn't keep any of my troop patches, so I searched...

I ended up ordering from that site, some older but more modern council patches for each place where I was a scout, and sewed them on.

I carried taht bag to almost every cub meeting for 4 years or a bit more....

and I sometimes wore my old bicentennial necker complete with Liberty Bell Woggle from 1976

Not once, never, did anyone ask me about any of it, or even comment.  I still find that hard to believe.

 

Be advised of the following.

 

1)  National training Committee has come out and stated it does not matter what color centennial trained patch you wear. So Cub leaders can wear the centennial tan and green and Boy Scout leaders can wear the centennial sized red on tan. So you do not need to change your trained strip once you get the POR specific training

 

2) When the literature came out in regards to the centennial uniforms, it stated that the older uniform items, aka "Oscar de lea Rentas" and "ODLs", and the Centennial Uniforms items were interchangeable. So you don't need to change the numbers either if you are within the same CO.

 

3) While now the literature shows Webelos and Cub Scout leaders wearing the white on red numbers, the literature that came out with the CUs showed everyone wearing the tan and green numbers. So if Cub leaders or Webelos are in tan and greens, they are wearing  "Vintage" 2008-2009 uniforms.

 

4) Did they ever make the tan on red numbers? I saw one BSA flyer online for about a week that had the Cub leaders and Webelos in red numbers on a tan background. 

 

In reference to Vintage uniforms and insignia,  yep it's a pain to find the stuff. I finally gave up looking for the blue on gold CS diamond pack numbers for my wife's uniform. I went ahead and used the fully embroidered red and white numbers.  Only the die hard historians will know she's wearing the wrong numbers.  Yep I finally seduced her to the Dark Side again. And she's upgraded to wearing a uniform this time since she is an ADL instead of a committee member.

Thank you very much!

That is great to know.  Now I won't be quite so concerned about changing them out.  Might even get lazy and leave them on till I get a new shirt.... and it will save me from feeling like I need to encourage my son to change his, too!

 

1910 - 1960 - 2010

 

ahh, Stosh... there's a problem.

Where's the tandem axle troop trailer for that 2010 vintage campsite?


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#22 Stosh

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 01:14 PM

It's the tent I notice more in this shot....I can almost smell that old canvas!

 

I spent a little time looking a couple years back, and had little luck.  I did find a site that had some, but as I recall it was mostly the more modern council shoulder patches.  Sorry, I don't recall the site though.

 

I had a canvas briefcase type bag taht I used to take misc stuff to each meeting.  I wanted to sew some of my old scout patches on.  thought it might be a conversation starter.

I had a few old patches taht my mom had saved for me (I had no idea she had them till my son started cubs)  Anyway, she didn't keep any of my troop patches, so I searched...

I ended up ordering from that site, some older but more modern council patches for each place where I was a scout, and sewed them on.

I carried taht bag to almost every cub meeting for 4 years or a bit more....

and I sometimes wore my old bicentennial necker complete with Liberty Bell Woggle from 1976

Not once, never, did anyone ask me about any of it, or even comment.  I still find that hard to believe.

 

Thank you very much!

That is great to know.  Now I won't be quite so concerned about changing them out.  Might even get lazy and leave them on till I get a new shirt.... and it will save me from feeling like I need to encourage my son to change his, too!

 

 

ahh, Stosh... there's a problem.

Where's the tandem axle troop trailer for that 2010 vintage campsite?

 

What you don't see just off a ways away is the van with the 14' kayak on it that got wet in the river behind there later that day. 

 

And I thought I was the only one left that slept in pup tents for just that reason.  :)


Edited by Stosh, 11 February 2016 - 01:17 PM.

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Stosh

 

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#23 blw2

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 02:14 PM

What you don't see just off a ways away is the van with the 14' kayak on it that got wet in the river behind there later that day. 

 

And I thought I was the only one left that slept in pup tents for just that reason.  :)

no... you still might be the only one Stosh.

I'm just flashing back from a long ago fond memory :)

I haven't slept in one since the late 1970's

 

I was shopping tents for my son recently, wanting to get him a cheaper starter tent for his first few troop outings.  I'm not going to let him and his buddies loose in my new REI halfdome.  It doesn't seem nearly sturdy enough for that.... until those new scouts learn to settle down a bit.  

Anyway, i was shopping around online for him and seriously thought about buying one of the modern twists on the pup tent.  I ended up realizing that it was my own nostalgia and not a practical idea, so I didn't even presenting the idea to him.  the ones I saw were more expensive than I wanted to spend anyway.


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#24 Stosh

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 02:25 PM

Of the three tents in the picture taken 6 years ago, quit using the white canvas 2 years ago, the WW II Pup was last fall's camporee and the modern tent was last November with the Mrs.  I'm under canvas at least a half dozen times a year.

 

With the sleeves, clips, rain flies, etc. I can still pitch the pup faster than the boys can getting their modern tents up.  A low cot, bag tossed on top, leave the pack against the tree, we're done.  Usually less than 10 minutes.


Edited by Stosh, 11 February 2016 - 02:27 PM.

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#25 archimago

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 06:15 PM

Stosh, those pics are so cool! You've inspired me to start seeking out a pup tent now, too...  ;)

 

I think I'll probably just go with the big city community strip and keep my eye on local antique/thrift stores for a more accurate community strip.


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#26 Stosh

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 08:19 PM

Go with E-Bay, reasonably inexpensive.  Make sure 2 poles of 3 sections each, no tears, all snaps, rest is not too bad.  I have a low cot 4" legs, fits nicely, move to middle in rain storm.  No floor, just let the water run through, not a problem. double ends means plenty of room for "night stand" and place for boots, etc.  No floor means you can crawl around without wrecking the non-existent floor.  My has stood up really well to thunderstorms, don't touch the canvas, no leaks. I run a clothesline inside between poles for tomorrow's change, that way I don't have to hassle in close quarters in the morning.  A throw rug works well and if it rains, just hang it up on the clothesline out of the way of any water flowing.  Used to trench the tents but can't do that anymore, just pick your tent spot a bit more carefully and you'll do okay.  Nothing better than laying there at night listening to the night noises and smelling canvas.  Don't get that with the nylon stuff.  :)


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Stosh

 

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#27 Krampus

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 08:23 PM

Cot? Cot?
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#28 Stosh

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 11:55 PM

At 65, a cot is nice.  It's my version of a tandem axle troop trailer.  :)

 

I have stepped up from a Ridgerest to a Thermorest, but I still use the Ridgerest a lot because it's less bulky. 

 

OKAY, OKAY!  I confess!  The Mrs. had a second Thermorest and she tempted me with her womanly wiles,  You happy now!  :( 


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Stosh

 

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#29 Krampus

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 06:59 AM

A cot in a pup tent is like low-rider shocks on a 850i. ;)


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#30 Sentinel947

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 07:44 AM

There's a troop in AZ or NM (can't remember) that attended camp with us. Small unit. They wear the old 1960s style pants, shirts and the old garrison cap. They looked SHARP!!!! What they could not buy in surplus one of the kid's grandmothers made. Classic look.

6163fb41b70ef78ee8e6177988a0e49d.jpg

I wish the uniforms looked like that now honestly. 


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#31 RememberSchiff

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 09:06 AM

I wish the uniforms looked like that now honestly. 

Full size neckers worn CORRECTLY over the collar, those were the days. I wore one of those "Steve Canyon" field caps and I will take today's baseball cap.


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#32 Stosh

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 10:07 AM

I put together a 1910 BSA field uniform for the Centennial Jamboree and for the spring and fall camporees which can be be in quite "chilly" temperatures (yes, we have had snow at the camporees), I still wear the uniform.  Long wool underwear, wool socks, pants and leggings.  The shirt is wool as is the tunic, The campaign hat is wool felt.  Never get cold all weekend long.  There's a reason why BSA had that uniform originally.  :)

 

We're the only troop I have ever met that has the full square neckers.  They are large as well, hang beyond the belt on the smaller guys.  To the belt or a bit above on adults.


Edited by Stosh, 12 February 2016 - 10:11 AM.

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Stosh

 

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#33 blw2

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 11:01 AM

I'm thinking of getting one of those thermarest cots, or similar

Down here in FL, I figure it will help to extend my camping season a bit, with the airflow under it.  

 

I historically don't camp locally in the summer.  Just too hot and muggy for my liking.  I'm wondering if I'll violate my rule more, now that I'm with the troop that camps monthly.

 

As a one time exception...I'm planning to go to summer camp this year as an observing committee member.  Hopefully it'll be a bit cooler in TN though.


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#34 desertrat77

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 11:29 AM

Those old uniforms looked good and stood up well in the outdoors.

 

I've got two old BSA canvas tents, and still use them, though not as frequently as I'd prefer these days.  They are simple and as others have mentioned, that canvas smell really takes you back.   Real camping.


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#35 fred johnson

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 11:34 AM

... so I'm a bit confused about what shoulder loops I should wear with my unit uniform. ...

 

Wow.  I wish all questions were as thoughtful as this one.  I applaud you on your wanting to do what is right.  I am similar to Stosh and others.  Wear the uniform and epaulet color that reflects the reason you are attending.  If you are a volunteer in the unit, wear the unit colors.  If you are attending to represent the council, wear those.

 

I've seen the reverse and it causes friction.  Example --> A unit committee member who helps at the district or council wears silver epaulets with the intention to use the credibility from that role to get more influence in his unit.  Sometimes when that happens, the volunteer has an agenda that is unhealthy for volunteering in the troop.  

 

When in doubt, be humble.  


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#36 The Latin Scot

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 07:39 PM

Question! The Bears Den Leader in my pack was just called recently and, bless his heart, has little idea what's going on. He got a uniform shirt and just happened to get the bright green Venturing epaulets, not knowing the colors had any significance. Should I take a moment to help point out to him the meanings of the colors, or do I risk being regarded as the Fashion Police? Should I just buy the blue ones and give them to him? Do I ignore it all together and mind my own business? I appreciate any thoughts on how to handle this; I notice other leaders in our cub pack, including his ADL, are wearing the wrong colors too, including orange and red. What would be a tactful way to address this matter, if at all?
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Hearken world, and listen up! There is no such word as "Webelo." If your son is an older Cub Scout, he is NOT a "Webelo!"

The singular of Webelos Scout is ... WEBELOS SCOUT!  That's it! Please take the extra half second and get it right! Thank you for indulging my little pet peeve!

 

Did I mention my obnoxious OCD?  :D 

 


#37 qwazse

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 08:15 PM

Let your bear DL know about his mistake. If you can afford to cover it, buy his epaulets on condition that someday he'll look into volunteering as an adult for a venturing crew. (Suggest he hang them from the bathroom mirror until that day. Mrs. Bear DL will love you for it!)

Also inform your other den leaders of the proper insignia, but let them know nobody has to make any immediate changes.

The one leader may be a leader in a troop, so you may do well to ask why their uniforms are the way they are.

Say it once, don't harp on it. This is one of those things that you'll always notice but won't change how much your people love their boys.
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#38 The Latin Scot

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 10:43 PM

Thanks for the advice! I know already none of the other cub leaders serve in other positions; in fact the ADL for the Bears is the only one who has ever been in Scouting before, which I imagine is why he is the leader with red epaulets. He was actually the assistant Scoutmaster over my New Scout Patrol as a kid and hasn't done scouting since. The other leaders are nice guys but none of them have done much Scouting before, despite the fact that they are all at least 20 years older than I am. I just feel awkward offering advice at all to a bunch of gentlemen who are my senior.

Edited by The Latin Scot, 01 August 2016 - 10:44 PM.

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Hearken world, and listen up! There is no such word as "Webelo." If your son is an older Cub Scout, he is NOT a "Webelo!"

The singular of Webelos Scout is ... WEBELOS SCOUT!  That's it! Please take the extra half second and get it right! Thank you for indulging my little pet peeve!

 

Did I mention my obnoxious OCD?  :D 

 


#39 qwazse

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 06:03 AM

Check Red's position patch. It might still be ASM!

Yeah, I remember that "Young buck thinks hew knows is stuff", eye roll.

Just put it in the form of a question, "Says here that Pack epaulets are blue for all adults. Think we should sync up?"
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#40 meyerc13

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 09:21 AM

The Latin Scot - you might be able to use this as an opportunity to educate the entire Pack about wearing the uniform correctly.  Contact your Unit Commissioner and ask if he can do a Uniform Inspection for your Pack.  Hopefully your Unit Commissioner understands that (From the Commissioner Fieldbook):

  • He is supposed to do it in a "friendly [...] manner"
  • It is supposed to be "a high-morale event"
  • It is supposed to help "develop unit pride"

Explain to the UC that you know that some of your leaders have issues with their uniform, and you'd like to use some gentle ribbing to educate them, but also to give the boys more pride in their own wearing of the uniform.  Ask if he can be extra tough on the leaders' inspection.

 

I would send a copy of the Cub Scout or Webelos Uniform Inspection Sheet home with the boys in advance, and let them get ready and practice for the Uniform Inspection.  Maybe do a pre-inspection the week before the Pack meeting.

 

When the week of the Pack Meeting comes around, have the Dens line up, and then have the UC announce that all registered leaders - Cubmaster, Den Leaders, and Committee Members, should also fall in for inspection.

 

Now, here is where you employ some showmanship.  Before the UC starts his inspection, ask the UC for permission to speak... and issue a challenge to the Leaders - ask the dens to get together and pick the den they think is the best uniformed, and put their score up against the leaders' score.

 

If your Pack is anything like most I've seen, some portion (possibly large) of the Committee will be out of uniform.  You're probably also going to have plenty of adult leaders who aren't wearing neckerchiefs, pants, socks, etc.  Hopefully your best dressed den (having prepared in advance) will be in better shape than the adults.  Since 20 points is for general appearance (and most adults won't have the good posture of a sharply dressed Cub Scout standing at attention)... I'm sure that the Den can beat the adults if you compare the average score of each.

 

Edit:  By the way - if your boys need copies of their Membership Cards, these can be printed by your unit Key 3 out of my.scouting.org.  The Commissioner can also print replacement cards.


Edited by meyerc13, 02 August 2016 - 09:58 AM.

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Yours in Scouting,

 

Chris Meyer

 

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