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The Secret of Leadership


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#1 Sentinel947

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 11:32 AM

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I gave this SM minute a few months ago, forgot to post it here. 

"I hear pretty frequently. "They don't listen to me." Getting people to follow you is pretty hard. So I'm going to share with you my secret. It's a secret that is shared in almost every major world religion, and the best CEO's, sports coaches and other leaders know this secret too.

What is it? 

It's servant leadership. If you take care of your people, they will take care of you. If you give them what they need to be their best, they will trust you. When they trust you, they will follow you. 

 

Before you step in front of your team to lead, ask yourself, "Do I serve them? Or do they serve me?""


 


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#2 Stosh

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 11:59 AM

He drank the Koolaid!  Welcome aboard, this is the only leadership I have used for the past 40 years working with kids and I can say with no reservation at all, it works!  It has worked in the community youth groups, the school youth groups, the church youth groups and Scouting.  I have seen it work in the business world far better with quicker results of change than using the old management techniques employed when I first learned them in my business administration studies.

 

By the way, I have seen this term used in the US Army leadership training manuals,  (Lt. Jones is a by the book pain in the butt, but Captain Smith?  Well I'd follow him into hell if that's where he needs to go.) I have seen it in print in the BSA literature (Patrol Leaders' Handbook), and I have seen it in the business world both in practice and in multiple versions of books on the market today.  My copy I have is being borrowed by my daughter, but it is an original edition of Robert Greenleaf's book "Servant Leadership" from back around 1974.

 

I often sit back on this forum and scratch my head wondering why I don't have all the problems everyone else seems to have.  I can only conclude the leadership I teach is different than what others are doing.


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#3 Sentinel947

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 01:09 PM

He drank the Koolaid!  

It was cherry flavored. Haha. 

It's something I'd experienced as a Scout, and as a Cadet. It's a pretty hard concept for people to understand. It seems like another silly contradiction, but it's really not. 


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#4 Stosh

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 01:51 PM

Yes,

 

It was cherry flavored. Haha. 

It's something I'd experienced as a Scout, and as a Cadet. It's a pretty hard concept for people to understand. It seems like another silly contradiction, but it's really not. 

 I am often surprised how hard it is to get a handle on it.  It's pretty much straight forward and the kids pick up on it and understand far quicker than adults.

 

I had one parent really get "miffed" at me because he came with a smirky smile and "yelled" at me for teaching his boy this process.  He said the boy did his homework, did chores around the house, helped when he didn't have to, and generally was a totally different kid before he got into scouts.  Then the real rant came when he told me his kid asked for the keys to the car and I didn't have a reason to say no.  He flat out said he felt like he had "lost control" of the situation.  :) 


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#5 Sentinel947

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 01:58 PM

It's also an interesting leadership style because it's very flexible. It doesn't mean you are a weak leader or a pushover. That's the common complaint I've heard about it. 

People who follow orders or instructions because they feel valued, trust their leaders, and have a stake in the organization is very is true power. Better yet, it's a power that comes without having to push around or intimidate others.

People who only do what is required to avoid punishment is a very weak form of leadership. If people can escape that kind of leadership, they generally will. Scouting is definitely an organization where the boys (or volunteer adults) can escape authoritarian leadership by voting with their feet. 


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#6 DuctTape

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 04:30 PM

I said in the other thread, the key word is trust.
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#7 qwazse

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 08:10 PM

Hmmm ... The greatest among you shall be your servant ...
Someone should copyright that. :)

Edited by qwazse, 29 January 2016 - 08:10 PM.

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#8 Stosh

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 08:45 PM

I said in the other thread, the key word is trust.

The people being led have found a person they trust enough to entrust their authority to that leader to do what is best for them.  If that person doesn't do what's best for them, they will withdraw their authority and seek someone else, i.e. vote with their feet.

 

I trust you and your word to provide the product you are promising me.  You did, I'll continue to come.  You didn't, I'll go elsewhere to find the product I want.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#9 Stosh

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 08:47 PM

Hmmm ... The greatest among you shall be your servant ...
Someone should copyright that. :)

Were does one think the whole concept of servant leadership originates from?


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#10 Krampus

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 07:27 AM

Hmmm ... The greatest among you shall be your servant ...
Someone should copyright that. :)

 

 

Were does one think the whole concept of servant leadership originates from?

 

According to previous threads? A tree or a rock? ;)


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#11 Stosh

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 07:45 AM

Posted Today, 07:27 AM

qwazse, on 29 Jan 2016 - 8:10 PM, said:snapback.png

Hmmm ... The greatest among you shall be your servant ...
Someone should copyright that. :)

 

 

Stosh, on 29 Jan 2016 - 8:47 PM, said:snapback.png

Were does one think the whole concept of servant leadership originates from?

 

According to previous threads? A tree or a rock? ;)

 

I seriously think people never wold associate an inanimate object as a source of evolutionary life on earth, nor would they feel akin to any thing of the plant kingdom.  My bet would be more in line with pond scum.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#12 qwazse

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 12:53 PM

Posted Today, 07:27 AM
qwazse, on 29 Jan 2016 - 8:10 PM, said:snapback.png

 
 
Stosh, on 29 Jan 2016 - 8:47 PM, said:snapback.png

 
According to previous threads? A tree or a rock? ;)
 
I seriously think people never wold associate an inanimate object as a source of evolutionary life on earth, nor would they feel akin to any thing of the plant kingdom.  My bet would be more in line with pond scum.

All biofilms are possible (given a billion years and as many acres under primordially oscillating conditions)!
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#13 Eagledad

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 12:20 PM

What is servant leadership? Servant leadership is just a phrase like boy run, patrol method and leadership. Humans, especially youth like clear descriptions of the actions needed to satisfy the phrase. Scouting has done that part well. Servant leadership are outward actions of the Scout Law; very simple. The Oath and Law are actions that are be summed up as servant hood or serving others. Leading others guided with only the actions of the scout law develops Servant Leadership.

As we talk about giving scouts independence to make decisions without adult intrusion, we only have to remind them to refer to their Handbook for guidience to all their decisions and outward actions. Then they only have to review the handbook to hold themselves accountable instead of seeking adult approval of acting satisfactory to a phrase.

Barry
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#14 Stosh

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 01:17 PM

What is servant leadership? Servant leadership is just a phrase like boy run, patrol method and leadership. Humans, especially youth like clear descriptions of the actions needed to satisfy the phrase. Scouting has done that part well. Servant leadership are outward actions of the Scout Law; very simple. The Oath and Law are actions that are be summed up as servant hood or serving others. Leading others guided with only the actions of the scout law develops Servant Leadership.

As we talk about giving scouts independence to make decisions without adult intrusion, we only have to remind them to refer to their Handbook for guidience to all their decisions and outward actions. Then they only have to review the handbook to hold themselves accountable instead of seeking adult approval of acting satisfactory to a phrase.

Barry

 

There's a fundamental difference between boy-led and adult-led.  There's a fundamental difference between patrol-method and troop-method.  There's a fundamental difference between leadership and management.  They are not just phrases one just throws about.    Boy-led/adult-led describes the fundamental difference on who's making decisions for the group.  Patrol-method/troop-method describes the fundamental difference on how the group is organized.  Leadership/management describes the fundamental focus on how the group experiences it's culture of operation.

 

If ons is to develop an environment for a boy-led operation, they won't be doing many lessons in adult-led processes.  Yes, they are not mutually exclusive, but one needs to know when to apply which one at what time.  If one is to develop an environment for a patrol-method operation, they won't be doing many lessons or focusing on troop-method operations very often.  If our goal is to develop leadership and the lessons offered are managerial only in nature, we will probably do a great job of creating managers, but won't get much traction in developing great leaders.  Management is not the focus of what leadership is all about.

 

I hear the concerns of those on the forum with boys struggling with what is perceived as leadership i.e. the boys won't listen to me, or the boys have all run off and won't do their jobs, and yet I hear the solution often times suggested fall under the category of management, i.e. you need a duty roster, you need to delegate and persuade them, or worst of all, send them to me, the SM, and I'll deal with it.  Training programs on leadership are mostly mislabeled management programs.  Strangely I audibly hear, "Why don't you take the lead on teaching this subject."  But what I hear in my head is, "Why don't you take the leadership role by using management techniques to convey the message of this subject."  After all what does one think a syllabus and leaders' guide and curriculum are all about.  100% management tools! 

 

Teachers are not necessarily leaders, it's not a given.  Some students become teacher's pets and some become teacher's headaches.  To justify in their minds what's going on, it is NEVER the teacher's lack of leadership that is the problem, it is always deemed the child is the problem for any one of a thousand different excuses.  Because of this being so effective in our culture today, the problem never gets solved or even addressed properly.  Ever go to a seminar for teachers and have them hold workshops on teacher leadership?  No where near as many as there are on how to control a disruptive child or conducting classroom discipline.

 

One can manage unruly kids in the classroom, just separate them or send them to the principal's office so that it doesn't have an effect on the other students.  Or through leadership ward off the problem before they have a chance to start.  Or best of all use one's leadership coupled with a few management skills and avoid the hassle altogether. 

 

As scout leaders I hear these same concerns expressed here.  We have all heard about everyone's disruptive scouts, those that don't pay attention, those that bully others, etc. etc. etc. and etc.  I only offer up what I have learned as another option to consider because a lot of the hassles I hear with unit structure, leadership development, problem scouts, etc. all have their basis in how we as "leaders" "manage" the operation of the unit.  If those two words stand hand-in-hand synonymous to oneself, best of luck with your units.  If they are not the same, and one can distinguish between the two, enjoy and have fun with your units because one won't need luck to make it successful.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#15 blw2

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 09:23 AM

I heard a great quote this weekend that applies to this thread, watching an episode of that old 1970's TV show Kung-Fu of all places!

of course this isn't the exact words, but close....

 

This was one of those flashbacks where Caine's master is teaching him wisdom

 

The master say's "I have three treasures that I hold

the first is mercy, for from mercy comes courage

second, frugality, from which comes generosity to others
and third, humility, from it comes leadership"
 
The Caine asks, "where do I hold these, in memory?"
 
The master laughs while saying ...."No, not in your memory, but in your deeds!"

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#16 Stosh

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 11:46 AM

It is interesting to note that when the American Red Cross is queried about their structure one can go to the web site and see all the business org charts for the American Red Cross shown in the standard chart with the Board of Director at the "top" and the employees and volunteers at the "bottom".  Looks like the standard operating flow of any managed business in America.  However, in the employee orientation training session they show quite a different story to them.  There they place a heavy emphasis on the vision and foundation of the work of the American Red Cross and the pyramid of structure is the servant leadership inverted pyramid with the people needing help (customer) at the wide top and the Chairman of the Board at the point at the bottom.  One chart is management, one chart is leadership.  What do they know that seems to be a stumbling block for leadership in the BSA?


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#17 NJCubScouter

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 10:39 AM

What do they know that seems to be a stumbling block for leadership in the BSA?


Doesn't the BSA teach "servant leadership" as well? When I have asked some of the Scouts who have attended NYLT about it, they almost all seem to know what I am talking about, so I have to conclude that if one pays attention at NYLT one learns about servant leadership. I have never attended Scoutmaster training but it is my impression that it is covered there as well. Whether a particular Scout or adult actually practices it, and to what degree, is another question, but that can be true of any skill. My guess is that the same is true in the Red Cross or any other organization. Putting principles into practice is often somewhat of a struggle.
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#18 Stosh

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 10:51 AM

From the reaction of many here on the forum, I hear a lot of management dynamics posing as leadership.  I guess it boils down to what people define is servant leadership.  I keep with the principles set forth by Robert Greenleaf in his book Servant Leadership published back in the 1970's.  What he describes and what I'm hearing here don't line up very well, and I have been having trouble clarifying the difference here with my comments.  I would need to take a look at the curriculum of NYLT and SM training to see how they describe servant leadership.  I do know BSA does use the term but doesn't give any explanation as to what it means.

 

The measuring stick I have always used is, "Take care of your boys."  If the subject at hand doesn't fit that premise, then I'm not hearing servant leadership or leadership in general being discussed.  I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that people have been taught that managers and leaders are the same thing.  Just isn't true, they have two different goals in the dynamics they portray.  Such things as "Doing a good job of taking care of your boys" further confuses the issue.  :)


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#19 Gerred

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 12:40 PM

This is so true! One of the biggest things about leading people is showing you trust them and you believe in them. And then getting out of the way to let them shine! One of the best books I've read on leadership that makes you and your people stand out is Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us. It categorizes your team into X-type and Y-type people, X-types being the ones who are on the team and only do the bare minimum to get by and Y-types being the ones who are self-motivated and ambitious, always exceeding expectations.

 

The trick is that it comes down to how you lead these people--are you expecting them to be lazy and not get the work done? Or are you giving them a picture of the possibilities and letting them run with it? Do they feel like everything they do has to be approved by you, or are they secure in their position (because you've instilled it in them) and make impressive decisions on their own?

 

As leaders, we have great power to influence those under our guidance. How will we use it?


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#20 Stosh

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 02:43 PM

Unfortunately @Gerred this is the definition behind the "One Minute Manager" on getting tasks accomplished.  This may work when there is a task to be accomplished, but when do people follow a leader when there isn't a task to do?  How do they hold loyalty to a person when the work is done?  This is the key.  Whereas it is one thing for the "leader" to trust the follower to do the job, when the job is done what happens to the trust and loyalty at that point?  It's gone.

 

The whole idea behind the difference between leadership and management is a person will trust, stay loyal and hang around the leader, not because of the task, but because the followers trust the leader!  The dynamic that was proposed in your post had it the other way around.

 

If a leader takes care of his people, they know that, they eventually trust that and they will stay with the leader as long as that leader continues to take care of them.  :)  It's kinda like the rude awakening for the 18 year old when they are kicked out of the nest and there's no one there that's going to take care of them like mom and dad did for those 18 years.  Where do they gravitate to?  It begins their search for a leader or they figure it out and become a leader.  A guy can get married so that his new wife will take care of him or he can take on a wife and family to take care of and have them follow him.  In this day and age of divorce, the break down of both parties wanting to be taken care of an neither wanting or even knowing how to lead is a general problem in our society today.


Edited by Stosh, 14 July 2016 - 02:44 PM.

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Stosh

 

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