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#21 Col. Flagg

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 02:59 PM

You and I both know from the I&P forums that there are many here, and in BOY scouting in general, that would subscribe to that philosophy if they could.

 

I prefer the concept of have an expert teach me so I can also be an expert (gender aside); the Girl scouts seem to prefer the "Proof"/example that women/girls can do it, when they teach the girls.

 

The irony that GSUSA is so overly accepting of anyone OTHER THAN heterosexual males when it comes to helping with their organization, makes their whole "acceptance" philosophy rather transparent, political and discriminatory. But when that affects a group they (GSUSA) feel are "privileged" then I guess it's okay. :rolleyes:

 

It just happens to be how many groups throughout antiquity have justified discrimination against people they don't like. So I'd rather they be honest about it than masquerade as some sort of enlightened group...when they're really not.


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#22 Lurking...

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 07:31 PM

There's a rule among these people that they are not allowed to look in any mirror.  It's not that they won't reflect an image, it's because of the image that will reflect.  Every time I meet people like this it always reminds me of a certain ruler's recently purchased wardrobe.


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#23 Ankylus

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 06:41 PM

Stumbled across this today and thought some of our girl scouting friends might be interested. A first step in sharing program and resources:

 

http://www.summitbsa...rl-scout-style/


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#24 blw2

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 07:04 AM

..... I prefer the concept of have an expert teach me so I can also be an expert (gender aside); the Girl scouts seem to prefer the "Proof"/example that women/girls can do it, when they teach the girls.

 

YES, I really do feel like the focus is more on showing that girls can do it.

and that's not all bad, but it's not all together altruistic either....

 

Since I posted earlier in this old thread, my youngest is now a daisy scout and my wife the assistant troop leader.  It really is a huge disconnect that my two daughters have to be in a different troop.  They have different weekends at the same camp, etc...  

    and I'm still left with this feeling that while I'm spending this time with my son, it seems like I'm avoiding spending time with them.  I hope they understand the truth....I think they do.

 

and on another related note,

in the book I recently finished, "Rocks in my Backpack"

there were some very interesting stories about how this scoutmaster's troop back in the 1970's did a lot of joint high adventure stuff with a GS troop.  Seems like it was a big hit for a number of years until it was kiboshed by a "concerned adult"


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#25 qwazse

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 10:08 AM

FYI the article is about the 1st GS/USA jamboree at BSR. Girl scouts have been having jamborees elsewhere for quite some time. Our most active GS mom in our community went to one in her youth.

 

What hasn't happened, I think, is a trickle-down from Jamboree participants to troops. And this may have to do with age-based structure. Boy scout comes home and tells 7 grades of youth in one troop about what he did at Jambo. Girl Scout comes home and talks about it to her troop, and maybe her sister's, so only a couple of grades of youth share in her recollections.


Edited by qwazse, 13 April 2017 - 10:12 AM.

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#26 Beery

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:53 AM

... whatever vision of the program gets passed down to the girls, many are not proud of it!

...With the cadets and seniors ... It seems like there are adult filters that go up and many GS moms talk the girls out of outdoor adventure. (Those of you who don't, bless you. But how many of your fellow leaders balk when you even suggest they make your program as outdoor oriented as yours?) The younger girls -- especially those with older siblings -- see what's in store and don't look forward to it.

 

In my experience (as the dad of an 8-year veteran Girl Scout who just graduated to Senior level), a lot of the dissatisfaction comes from the fact that the Girl Scout national leadership is completely out of touch with what Girl Scouting should be. Juliette Low is, I imagine, turning in her grave at the lack of outdoor activities combined with the bureaucratic nightmare Girl Scouts has become. The epitome of this is the Journey program, which is a perfect example of how to make scouting a chore. I know many of us either ignore the requirements altogether, or try our best to find the fun factor in what they've given us.

 

I'm lucky in that my wife is our troop leader, and she is 100% focused on the fun (and she loves to camp and do outdoor activities, as do all of the girls in our troop). Sadly though, the demands of the organization even make that difficult, with lackluster facilities and the fact that what the organization now calls "camping" is anything but, with kids being encouraged to sleep in cabins in many "camping" trips.

 

At the grass roots level, we can make a big difference, but if the level of disconnect between the top levels of the organization and the troops continues, I fear Girl Scouts will see even greater decline in the next few years. One good thing is that GSUSA is a lot more inclusive than some other scouting organizations (what sort of kids organization in the 21st Century excludes kids simply because they don't believe in a god?), but I really feel that GSUSA needs to get away from bureaucracy and making the girls jump through ridiculous hoops to get a simple cooking badge. I mean, "New Cuisines" is THE cooking badge for Cadettes, and it requires:

 

1a. Cook something from an area of the world you're curious about. Okay, sounds good so far. My daughter could make pasta, or an Indian curry.

1b. Find a relative, friend or neighbor who is an immigrant... Surely it's a cooking badge, not a cultural diversity badge. Let's keep it real!

2a. Put together a meal based on a food related news story. Why does it need to even get this complicated?

2b. Or research and cook a regional specialty that's become a cultural phenomenon.

2c. Visit the local history center or library, or ask an elderly community member, for a recipe...

 

And it goes on like this. That's just two of the 5 steps, all of which have three ridiculous options, including cooking a meal based in history, cooking a meal that "makes a statement" (whatever that means) and hosting a party that includes up to 4 meals. Some restaurants don't do as much research over their entire menu as Girl Scouts are required to go to to get a simple cooking badge. Why not simply make the requirement that she makes three different dishes? It's cooking - it shouldn't be rocket science or the equivalent of mounting an expedition to Everest.

 

I think we need to get back to the scouting basics of adventure, learning and FUN - and we need to keep it simple.


Edited by Beery, 19 June 2017 - 09:47 AM.

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#27 fred johnson

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:44 AM

What sort of kids organization in the 21st Century excludes kids simply because they don't believe in a god?)

 
You're making a worthy point, but then you take a cheap shot about being inclusive.  Girl scouts is inclusive unless you are male.   :)   My experience is BSA is more inclusive in that I know many scoutmasters who are female and many adult leaders who are female.  At our summer camps, there is always a large number of female leaders and staff.  Probably youth soon too.  In GSUSA, how many troop leaders are male?  How many girl scout camp staff are male?  

BSA has a tenet of faith in God as that is where BSA came from and the vast, vast majority of charter organizations (sponsors that provide space, materials and support) are churches.  I've never known it to be an issue unless someone is picking a fight.  And then yes sadly it becomes an issue.  
 
 

I think we need to get back to the scouting basics of adventure, learning and FUN - and we need to keep it simple.


This is where I do agree with you.  BSA & GSUSA are both too legalistic in their requirements.  So so much fun is lost.  Personally, I think we teach better lessons when we try to keep it simple. 


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#28 CalicoPenn

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 03:07 PM

 

 

At the grass roots level, we can make a big difference, but if the level of disconnect between the top levels of the organization and the troops continues, I fear Girl Scouts will see even greater decline in the next few years. One good thing is that GSUSA is a lot more inclusive than some other scouting organizations (what sort of kids organization in the 21st Century excludes kids simply because they don't believe in a god?), but I really feel that GSUSA needs to get away from bureaucracy and making the girls jump through ridiculous hoops to get a simple cooking badge. I mean, "New Cuisines" is THE cooking badge for Cadettes, and it requires:

 

1a. Cook something from an area of the world you're curious about. Okay, sounds good so far. My daughter could make pasta, or an Indian curry.

1b. Find a relative, friend or neighbor who is an immigrant... Surely it's a cooking badge, not a cultural diversity badge. Let's keep it real!

2a. Put together a meal based on a food related news story. Why does it need to even get this complicated?

2b. Or research and cook a regional specialty that's become a cultural phenomenon.

2c. Visit the local history center or library, or ask an elderly community member, for a recipe...

 

And it goes on like this. That's just two of the 5 steps, all of which have three ridiculous options, including cooking a meal based in history, cooking a meal that "makes a statement" (whatever that means) and hosting a party that includes up to 4 meals. Some restaurants don't do as much research over their entire menu as Girl Scouts are required to go to to get a simple cooking badge. Why not simply make the requirement that she makes three different dishes? It's cooking - it shouldn't be rocket science or the equivalent of mounting an expedition to Everest.

 

I think we need to get back to the scouting basics of adventure, learning and FUN - and we need to keep it simple.

 

You know, it's funny - someone recently had the same complaint about the BSA's cooking merit badge and how complicated it's become, even up to the point of asking why we need to have some first aid skills and why we need to bother with nutritional information in the merit badge requirements. 

 

I just can't understand why folks think these kinds of requirements are problematic or difficult  I look at them and thiknk "wow - why couldn't someone have thought of these when I was a Scout.

 

1a. Cook something from an area of the world you're curious about. Okay, sounds good so far. My daughter could make pasta, or an Indian curry...I'm interested in Iceland - now granted, it might be difficult to find puffin or fermented shark, but I surely could find something from Iceland that I could cook here.

1b. Find a relative, friend or neighbor who is an immigrant... Surely it's a cooking badge, not a cultural diversity badge. Let's keep it real!  I don't know how that requirement ends but I suspect it has something to do with learning about how different foods are here than from back home.  No matter how it might end, it sounds like a really good lesson in how immigrants have come to this country and have changed our foodways - both in the past and in the present.  Maybe folks in rural US haven't started eating food from Thailand but a lot of people in Urban areas have and eat it regularly.

2a. Put together a meal based on a food related news story. Why does it need to even get this complicated?  How is this complicated?  There are food related stories in the media all the time these days - is Gluten Free things being reported in your area?  Plan a gluten-free meal.  was kale being reported on?  Plan a dish around kale.

2b. Or research and cook a regional specialty that's become a cultural phenomenon.  I don't see any time limitations on this and the internet is full of stories about regional specialties.  If it were me, I'd cook an old-fashioned buttermilk fried chicken recipe - a regional specialty that has become, thanks to a certain Kentucky Colonel, a genuine cultural phenomenon.  Or how about pulled pork?  or bratwurst?  What's wrong with learning about regional foods?

2c. Visit the local history center or library, or ask an elderly community member, for a recipe...  Again, what's wrong with this?  Libraries are full of cookbooks.  An awful lot of local historical societies have published recipe books.  And elderly community members are a great resource for all kinds of things - I think asking someone for their favorite recipe would be a really cool thing to do.


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#29 fred johnson

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 03:23 PM

I just can't understand why folks think these kinds of requirements are problematic or difficult  

 

Because the requirements read more like a contract that a set of interesting things to do.  I know BSA is very very guilty of that.


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